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What are the copyright Infringement boundaries?

Started by
56 comments, last by Tom Sloper 5 years, 10 months ago
10 minutes ago, Scouting Ninja said:

The problem is misuse of someone else's property.

Misuse of digital property? something that is intangible? Never heard of that. Something that has billions of copies existing in the hands of others.

13 minutes ago, Scouting Ninja said:

 

Imagine I started sharing your games with other people, telling them I made the games.

Nothing I can do about that, digital content can very easily be copied, changed and manipulated. Besides, they are not making any money from it. But I was talking about fan games that are often different sans the characters in them.

16 minutes ago, Scouting Ninja said:

 

Copyright laws don't have a clause that only applies to selling games. Using someone else's content without their permission is illegal, in most countries.

Not in Uganda. I assume 'Using' means doing everything under the book with it, playing with it, using it as reference. This form of use is unstoppable.

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@Scouting Ninja summed it up really well but to add some more points.

@sprotz, the point you're missing is that it's not about financial gain. It's about the IP itself. To put it in perspective: say you've come up with this great character that you are using in your own work. Say it's family friendly content, some sort of comedy type thing.

Now say suddenly some Neo Nazis decide to take your character and start using it in their promotional videos. There technically isn't monetary profit for the Neo Nazis. But the problem is now that your character is now associated with Neo Nazis. 

This is an extreme example and I understand that you're talking about fan games, not something this extreme. But at the end of the day, artists want to decide what their content is associated with. You may be fine with your content being used for fan games, but many people don't want to take the risk of potentially being associated with something damaging or just being associated with low quality content. What if that fan content has the character do something crazy that the artist might not like, but is totally fine by the fan and the fan sees it as a tribute? 

Bigger IPs can't sit around and evaluate every single fan created content out there and it's just too risky to let content be published first and deal with the consequences later after evaluating what the content is. The simplest thing to do is take down anything that doesn't have permission and review requests as needed.

Now yes, some fan content does get published, but as @jbadams very correctly pointed out, there can be many reasons for that. Let me give you a really practical example though of how much content does get taken down for using someone else's property: YouTube automatically takes down any video that's found to be using some artist's music. It's usually as fast as 24 hours. There are tons of videos that are taken down very quickly because of copyright issues. Games are no exception to this.

No one expects the Spanish Inquisition!

Barlkey Slam-Jam Gaiden was nothing but copyright infringement, being a sequel to 2 licensed properties, but still being its' own thing.  The game has a cult following and a sequel in production which the creator is choosing to omit intellectual properties with copyrights so it can be sold commercially.  The original was made with RPG maker and re-made with GameMaker to add more features and the production story is interesting too.  I can say that this game existing is a net-positive and I'm glad someone made it, even though it uses elements of visuals and stories made by other people, it has lots of artistic merit IMO and more originality than most properties that just model themselves around other successful games while changing just enough to avoid copyright infringement.  I don't think this game existing took money out of anyone's pocket, food out of anyone's mouth or hurt anyone in any way.  This is why I think blanket statements of all instances of copyright infringement being theft are not only detrimental to creativity but incorrect.

 

If you are making the game with no intention to profit off of and ride the coattails of someone else's success then I see no problem with using characters or scenarios someone else holds the copyrights to, people do the same thing with public domain properties all the time.  Skill and originality always shines through.  Do what you feel inspired to do, if you come up with something amazing the art and story can always be changed pre-publishing.  The original Donkey Kong started off as a Popeye game until Nintendo ran into licensing issues with the characters, and that little sprite swap led to the creation of 2 of the most iconic characters in gaming. 

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@deltaKshatriya Still many people own that music on the youtube videos and there should be no point of taking it down, but we are talking about games here. I don't know what IP means but as I said, nothing can be done about someone giving away digital content to others, as others too will also be giving it off an so on and on. And as for what you mention something about someone using a character in their videos that represent a bad image and give it a bad image, that is also unstoppable because it is super easy to do with digital items. Except maybe for humiliation, there would be no harm done to the creator unless money was involved.

6 minutes ago, sprotz said:

@deltaKshatriya Still many people own that music on the youtube videos and there should be no point of taking it down, but we are talking about games here. I don't know what IP means but as I said, nothing can be done about someone giving away digital content to others, as others too will also be giving it off an so on and on. And as for what you mention something about someone using a character in their videos that represent a bad image and give it a bad image, that is also unstoppable because it is super easy to do with digital items. Except maybe for humiliation, there would be no harm done to the creator unless money was involved.

No...

 

Look, you have received answers from people who are professionals in the industry.

Maybe you'll get the answer that 'you want to hear' on the GameMaker forums, where the age of the members average in the low teens and they don't know any better.

But over here, the rules are not going to change, no matter how much you want to argue your point.

@DarkRonin I can't see anyone on this forum so I can't verify their age or profession. Anyone can pretend to be somebody on an internet site.

1 minute ago, sprotz said:

I don't know what IP means but as I said

IP means intellectual property.

1 minute ago, sprotz said:

nothing can be done about someone giving away digital content to others, as others too will also be giving it off an so on and on.

Just because we can't stop something from happening doesn't mean we shouldn't try to do something about it. This argument of nothing can be done about someone doing x so why bother doesn't work for any number of things. Imagine if we started saying the same thing about murder: we can't stop it from happening, once the person's dead, we can't do anything about it, so why bother?

Yes digital content means that sharing and changing things is really easy to do, but that doesn't mean that artists should just 'give up' on not letting their work be misused or used without permission. The rules are there for a purpose: to prevent misuse without knowledge of the creator.

9 minutes ago, sprotz said:

And as for what you mention something about someone using a character in their videos that represent a bad image and give it a bad image, that is also unstoppable because it is super easy to do with digital items. Except maybe for humiliation, there would be no harm done to the creator unless money was involved.

Again, you are looking at the wrong aspect of this: reputation and brand damage are absolutely a problem with tangible consequences. Don't believe me? Look at Pepe the Frog. The creator of Pepe the Frog absolutely hates what's happened to it. So yes, this can result in monetary and non-monetary damage to the IP in question. It absolutely matters.

Again, just because something will happen does not mean we should try to stop it and do something about it. 

5 minutes ago, DarkRonin said:

No...

 

Look, you have received answers from people who are professionals in the industry.

Maybe you'll get the answer that 'you want to hear' on the GameMaker forums, where the age of the members average in the low teens and they don't know any better.

But over here, the rules are not going to change, no matter how much you want to argue your point.

I will say one thing, I'm not a game dev. I work in software dev, but much of what I've been talking about you can simply read about on the Internet and learn from others on this forum. A lot of it also just what I've learned from my own work as an 3d artist who occasionally dabbles in game dev. The others who are posting here are absolutely experts in this field.

No one expects the Spanish Inquisition!

1 minute ago, sprotz said:

@DarkRonin I can't see anyone on this forum so I can't verify their age or profession. Anyone can pretend to be somebody on an internet site.

Why would every single person here tell you it is illegal then?

Are they worried your use of Mario or Sonic will make your reputation soar and turn you into the next biggest coder, putting you above them?

1 minute ago, DarkRonin said:

Why would every single person here tell you it is illegal then?

Are they worried your use of Mario or Sonic will make your reputation soar and turn you into the next biggest coder, putting you above them?

I think he's arguing about why this shouldn't be illegal. OP does seem to get that this is illegal but thinks that it's wrong that it's illegal. Though maybe I'm wrong.

No one expects the Spanish Inquisition!

50 minutes ago, sprotz said:
1 hour ago, Scouting Ninja said:

Copyright laws don't have a clause that only applies to selling games. Using someone else's content without their permission is illegal, in most countries.

Not in Uganda. I assume 'Using' means doing everything under the book with it, playing with it, using it as reference. This form of use is unstoppable.

I assume you're trolling now, Uganda has a copyright law that clearly states that 'fair use' is very limited, includes that you may not distribute (with very specific exceptions), and even goes so far to protect unpublished works. I mean this is the age of the internet, go check your facts before you throw them out there.

Link for reference. https://ulii.org/ug/legislation/act/2015/2006

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