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Looking to learn without formal education!

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23 comments, last by NikiTo 4 years, 4 months ago

@doomoperator Thanks for the tips! I've actually been quite vague about my intentions for a reason. I wanted to see what advice I would get as someone who just thought of this stuff on Day 1. I've been doing enough research to know that I want to be a game designer, as I want to create the art, levels and characters for my games, and I'd like to help manage that, too, but I also want to voice and write, too. I also know Unreal and Unity are the two most popular engines, and Unity, with its C# programming, would be “easier” to understand (I think they're similar, but C++ is supposedly more complex). I already have game ideas aside, and know which one to test first once I have the hang of this stuff. In the meantime, I want to improve my art, vocal talents, and writing, while learning about whatever needs to be learned to accomplish that goal. It'd be cool to find people to work with, but I'm worried most people care about money too much. At least the people I work with. @nerhak I understand Unity would probably be best for my first idea. I'm gonna start small, with a 2-D puzzle game, then perhaps an easy platformer, and build experience until I can create my masterpiece with the skill I need to make it not fish food! I figured learning a few different engines wouldn't be bad in the future, either!

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So you want to be a writer. It doesn't really matter what media you want to write in, the general advice is that you need to read. A lot. For every story you write or character you create, read 10 books. Fiction, non-fiction, it's all story telling and if you want to create stories, situations, locations, and characters for a game, you're telling stories.

Same with artwork. You want to git gud you draw. Fill sketchbooks. Copy art you like (copying art is good practice, distributing your copies as originals is not).

All this you can do without more than a basic grade-school education. Of course, a formal education forces you to do all this plus broadens what you're exposed to and expands your mind in unexpected directions, but in essence it's all about exposure and practice.

Notice none of this requires any kind of programming. Focus on one aspect and become a master, not on all aspects and master none.

Stephen M. Webb
Professional Free Software Developer

@undefined Just doing a drive by to tell you - with the internet the way it is now, just go for it. Even back when I was learning from the net in the early & mid 2000's, I could find lots of awesome stuff online to get going. Now you have YouTube, and even easier and more poweful, and free, game engines to work with.

With 2 big gotchas to look out for, my advice;

1. I will say that in University, I did a programming course that gave me an appreciation for structuring my code to be neat, slim, and re-usable wherever possible - you can get an appreciation for that yourself if you pay attention to whatever you learn from online and try to complete many small projects without getting bogged down in a mess of code. You will end up in that situation anyway, and it's like Thomas Edison found 1000 ways to not make a lightbulb; fail and find ways it's not working to finally work out how to do it better.

2. Also final year project and actual work experience has shown me how you need to cut corners to get a finished project. Working alone with no schedule or deadline means never ever getting anything done, because you get stuck in an endless trawl of “being an artiste” and trying to perfect every little thing, there's no critical path, and the game never gets finished. You should be able to learn that yourself just by looking up other people's stories on how long it took to make their game, and being realistic about how long it should take you to finish yours, and being introspective about where you need to improve and cut corners when you inevitably go over schedule. Even if you think you want to do it as a hobby and not make money from it - still, this applies, because your game will never be finished if you don't work on that.

But yeah, just start looking stuff up. You'll get there. I recommend Godot to start with, it's a delight to work with, and very good at 2D and 3D. Unity and UE4 when you need to get serious; Unity for the multi platform support and 2D graphics (both HD and pixel art) and UE4 for the best 3D graphics and online multiplayer support.

For local multiplayer retro themed games, visit Domarius Games.

chromescythe said:
Kinda both, lol. I'm trying to learn what it takes to make games so I can best express the stories I wish to share, but I want to eventually consider making a career of it

Formal education is a necessity to get hired at a game company in most countries. But if your passion is stories, games are not the only medium. The best game writers also write stories for graphic novels, web series, etc. Those writers mostly have had a formal education.

-- Tom Sloper -- sloperama.com

I understand that they often do, but I get cramped with schools and expected work, and unless I'm trying to prove my knowledge when I'm confident enough for it, I don't want to have to test and be graded. Plus I don't want to be in debt, or have to pay for something I can find online, or rent a book from the library to learn. Plus, once I have an idea of what to learn (programming, math, physics, A.I., graphical engineering, etc.), I can study them on my own, at my own pace, so I can experiment when I'm ready. I also understand now that time constraints are still practical when it comes to projects, but I need the skills to carry my part to do one first. My ultimatum is to put my best stories out there in a format I want them to be experienced in, with the best possible engagement, regardless of success. At least my story will be around when I'm gone (if I succeed).

chromescythe said:

I understand that they often do, but I get cramped with schools and expected work, and unless I'm trying to prove my knowledge when I'm confident enough for it, I don't want to have to test and be graded. Plus I don't want to be in debt, or have to pay for something I can find online, or rent a book from the library to learn. Plus, once I have an idea of what to learn (programming, math, physics, A.I., graphical engineering, etc.), I can study them on my own, at my own pace, so I can experiment when I'm ready. I also understand now that time constraints are still practical when it comes to projects, but I need the skills to carry my part to do one first. My ultimatum is to put my best stories out there in a format I want them to be experienced in, with the best possible engagement, regardless of success. At least my story will be around when I'm gone (if I succeed).

Your options are going to depend on what position you're applying for, and where the business is located apart from the company's hiring policies. Different countries put more value on education regardless of experience so you'll need to do some research first.

In regards to programming:

Getting in the door is the hardest part and you can do it in a number of ways:

  1. Get your Computer Science Degree (bachelor's degree) and build a personal portfolio so you have something to show code wise.
  2. Learn as you go and acquire the skills needed, but you'll have to put them to the test and actually freelance and/or do real work over a period of time in order to build working experience and a portfolio. You'll still want a personal portfolio regardless of having a list of projects you've worked on, just keep in mind about NDAs, and IP rights when showing any of your work. (Rule of thumb, never put anything in a portfolio that you don't have written consent as your portfolio should consist of code). Also credit yourself on projects for as long as they don't breach any agreements.

Option 1 is the usual approach for people fresh in the industry. (You'll also benefit from networking just by going to school)

Option 2 works more for people that are self taught and have been programming for several years with actual freelance/project work under their belt. In my area you can substitute experience for education in several positions, but either way you'll have to really know your stuff otherwise you'll flop during the interview stage. However, don't expect to spend a year learning C++ for example, then apply for jobs… You should aim to prove your knowledge in some way. This isn't easy and will require a lot of self-discipline.

An added note, in North America there are self taught programmers employed with no degree, so never get discouraged if you're in Canada or the United States. I cannot speak on anywhere else in the world.

Just remember, you're going to be hired for the value you can bring to the organization and you need to prove yourself regardless. The main problem is getting past the ‘screening process’, and having no degree might cause your resume to get binned more so than not. You might be able to get in the door faster by targeting smaller studios, and start-ups. I would also suggest going for lower pay - entry level work if that means you can get your foot in the door (short term sacrifice in pay for a long term gain by getting experience). If you can network with people in the industry who are local, this can open doors for you when you're ready to make the jump. Once you're ready to apply make sure you apply regardless of the educational requirements. The worst they can say is no, and every interview is experience and will help you in each one that follows assuming you openly analyze what went wrong and what went right.

My final note here is that I would still suggest option 1 because you're not already coming from a background in programming and with option 2 you're still going to have to clock in years to acquire equivalent knowledge while building a portfolio to prove your skills and hopefully getting a few gigs along the way. Either way, having a degree is always better than not having one, but if you go with option 2 you better be prepared to work extremely hard.

Best wishes.

Programmer and 3D Artist

chromescythe said:
but I get cramped with schools and expected work

Then you'll have a difficult time working in a high-pressure game company environment. The pressure of college is nothing compared to the pressure of professional expectations.

-- Tom Sloper -- sloperama.com

I appreciate all the input so far! Thank you for all the advice, good to hear or not! I'm determined to do this, and unfortunately, if I have to go to a school, I'll have to find the right one, and preferably one that won't leave me in debt! Regardless, I want to try and study some of this stuff in the meantime! Hope everyone has a great day, and thank you for your time!

It is always a good idea to learn while doing something you enjoy.

I enjoy drawing, so i always program something that has to see with visuals. Developing a game is super fun, as the debugging process is fun. It is funnier to hunt for glitches while playing with the WASD than wasting your eyesight looking to debug values.

So, it is a good idea to learn programming by programming games.

In my personal experience schools are not always something good. I studied in three places in three different countries each one on the other side of European continent(forming a triangle), so i tested three very different mentalities. I had to leave one of the school, because of the country. They were BANNING competition and ambition by law. I then studied in another country in a very cool school. It was giving people the knowledge a university gives but only in 6 to 12 months. If you have the gift of the mentality of a programmer, you can learn it all in 12 months. The school was super cool, but i had problems with my third team. I was super fine with my first two teams, but the third team was made up of visually very same looking people and i was visually the only different. So they voted me to leave the team and the rules of the school stated that i am a goner.

Working in a team without frustration is the hardest challenges of all. In a team you must think three times before opening the mouth…. very very stressful.

Example from the real life working in a team:
Me: Commenting on the right side of the code.
Teammate: Why are you commenting?
Me: Good to know if we open it few months later and we forget what this code does.
Teammate: So you think we are stupid we can not remember what this code is doing?
…..
…..
Few days more and the frustration grows and the majority kicks the minority from the team….

I thought only three times before opening my mouth. I should have thought four times and I should have said “I” instead “we”. This was my fault. A single short wrong word….

Remember: “A human to another human is a bloodthirsty beast..”

(talking from my own experience)



Learning by yourself is harder than learning in a school. But some schools are so bad, you are better off self-taught. If the school is good and you are working for it too, you can become one of the best. Plus, you should know that every single teacher in every single school indoctrinates you to think like him. When you learn alone, you are less indoctrinated.

Don't be afraid of the time. Before you notice it, 2, 5, 10 years will be gone. Just start learning. With the time you will learn it.

If i were hiring, i would not mind if you have an education or not. Your portfolio and demos tell me everything. I would put you on a PRACTICAL test too. But i will never be hiring. I will always be coding in the basement safe from the outside world. And i learned to be happy with my basement. I adapted to it. There are cool projects a single person could finish alone in a basement and even be paid good money for it. I am not saying programming in a team is something bad. It is the coolest thing…. if it works….

(Notice, if i were hiring and I had a working team made up of 4 people without education, and you have an education, i would not hire you exactly because you have an education. I can not allow a different 5th person to enter a team made up of 4 alike persons. This could damage the team.)

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