I think you have it right about being able to see the telltale signs of the next attack and block it. As for the Dune sheild... It is genious. I remember thinking it cool at the time, but I had forgot about it. How do we do this in fantasy? MAGIC!

-Chris Bennett of Dwarfsoft - Site:"The Philosophers' Stone of Programming Alchemy" - IOL
The future of RPGs - Thanks to all the goblins over in our little Game Design Corner niche
          

Why not just base combat around the various fighting games? Tekken, Street Fighter, etc..To get away from ''button mashing'' why not use some concepts from Virtual Fighter or Bushido Blade?...Mmm...if you don''t want the game to feel like another "goblin genocide" type thing maybe use some of the combat techniques found in games like Secret of Monkey Island?

course there was Die by the Sword too...sorry if all of these have been suggested by now :p

As far as realisam...forget it...you don''t want it...all the blood and gore you see in films is fake...it doesn''t happen that way in reality...

I saw a fist fight back in high school that turned out very violent...one of the kids stabbed the other with a 5 inch long knife in the chest [punctureing his lung]...the kid that was stabbed was so full of adrenelane that he didn''t even flinch...he didn''t even feel or know it until after the fight got broken up and he started coughing up blood...there wasn''t that much blood anyway [hollywood seems to think we are blood filled water balloons]...the kid went from angry, kicking and screaming, to totally limp as shock set in...and if he hadn''t recieved medical attention as fast as he did, his state of shock may have eventually shut his body down, killing him [thankfully he fully recovered]...

Sorry...I had to tell about that incident...it wasn''t pretty...but I just wanted to point out that movies are very unrealistic...trying to mimic them is okay I guess...but don''t think that in doing so your game is by any means realistic.

One note. When I mentioned the sword fighting be realistic, I suppose I meant the results be realistic rather than the actual fighting. I meant if you stab someone in the head they''re going to be hurt really badly. Furthermore, if you kill someone it''s going to have severe in-game consequences. It''s going to mean something.

In movies, there are some movies that show violence in at least a more realistic way than others. Some action movies tons of people can be slain and it means virtually nothing. In others, such as Fight Club or Pulp Fiction, just an injury makes the audience''s skin crawl. It has nothing to do w/ how "real" it looks as far as the special effects and blood. It has to do w/ what it means in the realm of the movie''s plot itself.


""You see... I'm not crazy... you see?!? Nazrix believes me!" --Wavinator

"All you touch and all you see, is all your life will ever be." -Pink Floyd

Need help? Well, go FAQ yourself.

That is really the point that needs to be made. I was under the impression that you wanted the fighting itself to take on an attacking and blocking stance where you required knowledge of different attacks to parry etc where you control the attacking and blocking. What you want is realistic damage. I agree with this more than I do the former.... It all comes down to that location based combat system that we spoke of earlier

-Chris Bennett of Dwarfsoft - Site:"The Philosophers' Stone of Programming Alchemy" - IOL
The future of RPGs - Thanks to all the goblins over in our little Game Design Corner niche
          

Yeah, I realized that I wasn''t being very clear. I was talking about the actual fighting mechanics, but I think I meant that I wanted the fighting mechanics to provide the result of realistic consequences even if the mechanics were not very realistic.

Yeah that''s more like what I meant


""You see... I'm not crazy... you see?!? Nazrix believes me!" --Wavinator

"All you touch and all you see, is all your life will ever be." -Pink Floyd

Need help? Well, go FAQ yourself.

My impression, as a dedicated RPG gamer - and not as the bginner game programmer that I am - is that going to that sort of realism (where one good hit kills you and no matterwhat , I - the superhero - canot fight more than 5 adversaries) will do no good to your game.Here are my fears:
-the duels will be reduced to attempts to deliver fatal blows to certain parts of the enemy(click on the head, click on the head, click on the head, block, click on the head, e.t.c)
-the length of the duels will be diminished therefore decreasing the satisfaction of defeating an adversary
-like it or not , the gore is one of the key elements in attracting players in a graphically rich environment.Cutting your way through waves of enemies, body parts flewing everywhere is not such a bad thing to do and play,IMHO.
-In real life I am not sure I can handle one (1) adversary in a fist combat .I''d like in a RPG to handle much more (if you understand what I mean).If your hero is to be an usual man, then don''t bother for me...
-as It has been previously stated, implementing the art of handling a sword - which takes year in real life - with the use of some keys and of a mouse cannot be done in a good way no matter what system will you use.Either you get complicated , either you will be accused of being unrealistic.As far I am concerned,the best system I have seen was in Silver(to add one to the list of games with "moves"), where you could very easily do different atack and defense moves, but usually the speed of the combat pushed you to choose the very simple and fast ones.Special atacks were available also.
My approach will be slightly different - have both the main character and the enemy with enough intelligence to handle the fight on their own and choose the appropriate stances and atacks for the degrees of skill they have.Let the one that is badly hurt run, and I should only direct my character to the next target.That will make for some spectacular fights I am sure, and the stats will be fully used.The interactivity will greatly lack in the fights, however, but let the one who whish to fight play Bushido Blade :-) on PS rather then playing a RPG.


The Truth Is Not To Be Spoken In A Loud Voice

sorry if anyone already had this idea (i''m slow and I have trouble keeping up with these threads), but heres and idea for
location based attack:

when you go to combat mode, up pops a display of your enemy. In
Ye Olde RPG this would look like one of those real cool old
anatomy charts, in Futurismo 10,000 gizmo RPG it could be a
computer display. This chart sits over to one side of the action
and you left click a location to thrust there, and right click
to swing at it. To block you hold down alt and pick a region
(high,mid,low). Wherever you pick is where you EXPECT the
opponent to strike, so you have best chance of blocking in that
area. The NPC can then do nasty stuff like poking your eye out
when you thought he/she/it was really going to kick you in the
nuts (or whatever). It''s real time and its tactical.

(did i mention i''m having trouble punctuating and capitilising
today?)

LOL SpazBoy... I like your thinking. Though I don''t really like the chart idea, it seems to remind me of turn based fighting (which sux, esp if you intend MM ).

Jabba - I think that you miss the point of the system. I think it would be really good of a player to proove their worth by taking on 5 adversaries and use their skill, wits and guile to win through. It would require much more exertion of thought and therefore the player would feel more of an accomplishment for their tasks. That is what I see it coming down to - Accomplishment.

-Chris Bennett of Dwarfsoft - Site:"The Philosophers' Stone of Programming Alchemy" - IOL
The future of RPGs - Thanks to all the goblins over in our little Game Design Corner niche
          

quote: Original post by Jabba


-the duels will be reduced to attempts to deliver fatal blows to certain parts of the enemy(click on the head, click on the head, click on the head, block, click on the head, e.t.c)

Well, here's what I have started to do to reduce this effect. I made it so there are 3 swings (overhead swing, stab, sideways swing). The overhead aims for the head, the stab goes to the torso/arms, and the sideways one goes toward the legs.
The overhead takes the longest to execute, so it gives the NPC a lot more time to block it. So, that way it will be very hard to pull off a head-shot unless you really know when to pick the right time.

I haven't totally figured out everything yet, but I definitely want the head to be a hard target to hit. Also, there could be a lot of strategy. The player may go for the arms to injure them. Then the NPC will have a harder time blocking a hit to the head.

quote:
-the length of the duels will be diminished therefore decreasing the satisfaction of defeating an adversary

Most fights in games are pretty quick now I think.

quote:
-like it or not , the gore is one of the key elements in attracting players in a graphically rich environment.Cutting your way through waves of enemies, body parts flewing everywhere is not such a bad thing to do and play,IMHO.

-In real life I am not sure I can handle one (1) adversary in a fist combat .I'd like in a RPG to handle much more (if you understand what I mean).If your hero is to be an usual man, then don't bother for me...

Aren't you tired of a game allowing you to perform massive killings that mean nothing? What if just one advesary was so much of a challenge that 2 would overwhelm you (like Thief for instance).




""You see... I'm not crazy... you see?!? Nazrix believes me!" --Wavinator

"All you touch and all you see, is all your life will ever be." -Pink Floyd

Need help? Well, go FAQ yourself.


Edited by - Nazrix on October 24, 2000 2:07:20 PM

Spazboy,
I kind of like the chart idea. It's pretty interesting. The player could pick where he wants to swing instead of hitting a button. Thanks for the suggestion.



""You see... I'm not crazy... you see?!? Nazrix believes me!" --Wavinator

"All you touch and all you see, is all your life will ever be." -Pink Floyd

Need help? Well, go FAQ yourself.


Edited by - Nazrix on October 24, 2000 2:10:52 PM