One thing I would like to see his more movements...
I would like lot of movements
If you remember Barbarian, when you were hit it would push you back, and you could roll into the legs of your opponent making him stumble.
Do you think of other movements like this ?
The environment could be taken in account to, you could be pressed against the wall... or impede the advance of your opponent by throwing things into his pathway.
Also, what I would give to be able to disarm him or to put the sword against his neck instead of killing him.
With the possibility to surrender, ^you could create some interesting situations...
I wonder wich interface would allow for this ? Perhaps hot-keyed shortcuts wich would change depending on the circumstances, most people can handle a flight-simulator key layout, so why not a sword fight simulator

"Imagination is more important than knowledge."
"If we knew what it was we were doing, it would not be called research, would it?"
-- Albert Einstein --

I think to acheive such a wide range of things, you would need a specially designed keypad for the game port. I love the ideas that you have put forward, but it would be bloody complex to control with keyboard, mouse, and/or joystick.

-Chris Bennett of Dwarfsoft - Site:"The Philosophers' Stone of Programming Alchemy" - IOL
The future of RPGs - Thanks to all the goblins over in our little Game Design Corner niche
          

In Bushido Blade you could surrender, it wasn''t a perfect system though. To keep your honor your opponent would kill you, and it was kind of funny to surrender, wait until they got close to you and then kill them =P

Of course, that only worked in versus mode, since it broke the code of the Bushido and you lost in story mode .

Null and Void
At least I don't know COBOL...

quote: Original post by dwarfsoft

I think to acheive such a wide range of things, you would need a specially designed keypad for the game port. I love the ideas that you have put forward, but it would be bloody complex to control with keyboard, mouse, and/or joystick.

-Chris Bennett of Dwarfsoft - Site:"The Philosophers'' Stone of Programming Alchemy" - IOL
The future of RPGs - Thanks to all the goblins over in our little Game Design Corner niche
          

Not hard to control at all. 4 buttons and a d-pad.

Button-1: Default to interact with inviroment

Button-2: Default to jump

Button-3: Default to middle Attack

Button-4: Default to middle Block

When fightig and no objects are around button-1 lunges.

Use up and button 4 or 3 for a high block or attack, same for down

Use foward and attack for a jab, regular attack for a slash.

Simple controls. Need I say more??



Matthew
WebMaster
www.Matt-Land.com

quote: Original post by DungeonMaster

One thing I would like to see his more movements...
I would like lot of movements
If you remember Barbarian, when you were hit it would push you back, and you could roll into the legs of your opponent making him stumble.
Do you think of other movements like this ?
The environment could be taken in account to, you could be pressed against the wall... or impede the advance of your opponent by throwing things into his pathway.

Very nice ideas. What's Barbarian? Is it on the Playstation too?

quote:
Also, what I would give to be able to disarm him or to put the sword against his neck instead of killing him.
With the possibility to surrender, ^you could create some interesting situations...
I wonder wich interface would allow for this ? Perhaps hot-keyed shortcuts wich would change depending on the circumstances, most people can handle a flight-simulator key layout, so why not a sword fight simulator

"Imagination is more important than knowledge."
"If we knew what it was we were doing, it would not be called research, would it?"
-- Albert Einstein --

yeah, I was thinking a possibility of surrender for the player and NPCs...thanks for the input





""You see... I'm not crazy... you see?!? Nazrix believes me!" --Wavinator

Need help? Well, go FAQ yourself.


Edited by - Nazrix on October 19, 2000 8:40:52 PM

Barbarian is quite an old game, it was for cpc, amiga and st...
It was sideview, no scroll, simple story (save the princess).
There was some sixteen moves and only ten levels if I remember, but it was quite addicting...
(Where is my winuae... )

Just a note (since I myself have been walking around with real-time realistic swordfighting for RPGs)...

Remember Dune?

The fighters could use a futuristic shield that would block off ANY attacks EXCEPT the really slow ones (meaning, it would block any missile weapon -bullets, arrows etc) but could be penetrated by slow stabs with a dagger.

This would be an ideal shield to use in a real-time swordcombat. Why? Because it would give a logical reason for slow movements, slow attacks. This would then give the players more time to realistically defend themselves.

Of course then the question comes up... what sort of rpg world would have a shield like this? Well, design it

You could use the shield for all sorts of options. Players could tune it to ward off either slow or fast attacks (yet NOT warding off the opposite), depending on the situation; the shield could malfunction, or wear out after a certain amount of time (which would greatly affect the outcome of battle, as your opponent could just use a fast attack to finish you off). Players might be able to customize their shield etc.

I think any game that attemps to use real-time combat as realistic as proposed needs some way to slow combat down just a bit. Because real-time is just too fast for a person who handles a mouse instead of a real sword (in my opinion)

Silvermyst

There is one thing you have to remeber in all of this. And I think it was kind of alluded to earlier. The reason games like Baldur''s Gate used AD&D rules is because they can simulate the skill required for combat using skill levels, abilities, etc. For a person watching a 3D world on a 2D screen and wielding a mouse instead of a sword these skills will be very difficult to master. Learning to sword fight is an aquired skill that takes years of practice, something most people don''t have time for.

I guess what I am trying to say is that making combat too realistic where one has to master key movements, mouse movements, etc. can have a very adverse effect on gameplay. If you are constantly getting your butt kicked in combat cause you don''t have the time to devote to practicing the game then no one will play.

Having said that, I do agree that some games go to far in that your character can be pounded on with all manner of weaponry and still survive. I believe the creators of D&D style games incorporated (or attempted to) the dodge/parry/weave into the game rules. Where dexterity, strength, weapon skill, and armour all played into the attack/defense die roles. Removing that worry from the player allowed him to submerse himself in the world rather that spend countless hours just mastering the use of the combat.

Again, having said that, probably the best/easiest example of such a system was in one the Dark Forces titles (Jedi Knight I think). Where you could have lightsaber duels. I am still not convinced that this would be a system for a crpg. If you want another good reference there was a game out a while ago where you would have duels in various arenas using your mouse to simulate sword fight attacks. It was a very gory game. Legs and arms chopped off. Unfortunately I can''t remember the name of game right now. I''ll check when I get home and post another message.

Those are just my thoughts, so you can hack em to pieces if you wish. Just remember in the gaming world, it is always wise to look at what sells and most importantly WHY it sells.


Damon Clavuis

I don''t know about anyone else, but I thought Baulder''s Gate''s combat system got old eventually. This was my most important point of this thread. Combat in such games where your stats do every bit of the work is kind of boring. You just direct your player toward the enemy you want to kill then the character just keeps fighting til they''re dead or the player''s char is dead.

And just for the record, Baulder''s Gate was successful mostly because of the pretty graphics, not it''s design if you ask me.


""You see... I'm not crazy... you see?!? Nazrix believes me!" --Wavinator

"All you touch and all you see, is all your life will ever be." -Pink Floyd

Need help? Well, go FAQ yourself.

quote: Original post by Silvermyst

I think any game that attemps to use real-time combat as realistic as proposed needs some way to slow combat down just a bit. Because real-time is just too fast for a person who handles a mouse instead of a real sword (in my opinion)

If you learned the controls and what the diffrent attacks looked like you would have not trouble blocking them. Take marvel vs. capcom for example, too fast? Nope. It would only take 30 mins to learn if a tutorial mode was included. Different characters would of course have different styles but learning the styles would add to the fun factor. And maybe there could even be a way to fake an attack, also adding to the fun factor.

Oh and the sheild Idea... Creative...

Matthew
WebMaster
www.Matt-Land.com