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From paper to a fully functional 3D characters / models in Unity? But How? Maya, Zbrush, Autodesk 3ds, Photoshop, Blender (How much software do you actually NEED - I need an answer before the 1st of october)

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7 comments, last by Rutin 5 years, 8 months ago

Hello guys!

I want to learn to make my own assets, characters, model and so on for my own games, instead of having to rely on others assets (and be able to create the things I actually want, and not just what I can find that is avalible)

So I have spend on/off the past month trying to figure out the basic of how it works and such, what to expect and which programs there are avalible and what they cost.
Truth be told, considering how many different software, tutorials, and complexity of it all, it seems very hard to figure out where to actually start, with this. Especially because it seems as though most of any software that's commonly used when you search the interwebs, it seems as though they are all insanely expensive for a mere mortals. However, I looked at the software called ZBrush because I can see it's a software that is used in big companies like Blizzard, EA and a lot of other big studios, both related and unrelated to the gaming industry like movies and such.

 

Though it is still a pricy piece of software it is the only software of the big ones that I found that is not a yearly or monthly subscription based software, but a perpetual software license purchase software. A one year autodesk Maya subscription cost more than a perpetual software license from the newest ZBrush version that last forever. In a perfect world were money didn't matter to me, I'd just buy them all and use whatever I liked the best, but I'm not made of gold so I'll have to choose between one or the other of them all. But it just so happens that while I looked up on ArtStation few days ago that I can see there is a 20% of on the newest version of ZBrush until October 1st 11:59 PM which will save me 179$ which is A LOT to me :) so I seriously consider to buy ZBrush now that it seems to be the cheapest software of the big ones there is (that I have found so far) and especially now when I have a chance to save A LOT!

However, as I said before: 
considering how many different software, tutorials, and complexity of it all, it seems very hard to figure out where to actually start. Even when I look at ArtStation, DeviantArt it seems as though a lot of people even have used both Maya, PS, ZBrush or up to 6-7 programs whereas half of them I havn't even come across or heard of before. So this basicly just make me more confused whenever I think I finally got how it works... So at this point I don't even know anymore, which software does what, which software do I actually NEED, and which software is just "luxury" software (one where they might use 'software A' for this and 'software b' for this, but you can actually do the same in both 'software a' and 'software b', it is just easier to different things in boths software).

So the question I want to make is truly:
  1. If I want to make a character for my game (let's say Sombra Cyberspace from Overwatch), fully animated, complete and all like she is in Overwatch, into my Unity 3D game, which software do I actually use to make all the required steps?
  2. How many "steps" are there in the process of doing this?
  3. Do I actually need more than Unity and modelling software like Zbrush (If that is what they are called - please correct me if I'm wrong)?
  4. Is ZBrush the choice for me or am I just doing a very costly mistake, because it can't actually do what I think it can? Or do I end up having to buy a lot of other different software aswell if I buy ZBrush in contrast to some other software solutions? 
  5. Can I actually live without ZBrush or any of all these expensive software solutions?


When you answer please bare in mind I'm a newb, so please refrain from using very technical answers, or to answer like you think I know something, because I don't. Talk to me as if I'm a total rookie and moron and explain it to me as if I were a 5-year old :D 

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2 hours ago, bilbo92 said:

If I want to make a character for my game (let's say Sombra Cyberspace from Overwatch), fully animated, complete and all like she is in Overwatch, into my Unity 3D game, which software do I actually use to make all the required steps?

You have a few options here. Depending on your choice you can sculpt the character is zbrush or any other package like it, or model it in another 3D package through non-sculpting means like poly modeling. I personally mix them both up and take advantage of sculpting to add more details and define shapes especially with organic models. To keep costs lower, you can use Blender for sculpting even though I personally find zbrush more superior, but either way you will have to retopologize your high poly meshes for any animation work, and to be game ready.

2 hours ago, bilbo92 said:

How many "steps" are there in the process of doing this?

Depends on what you want.

1. Make the high poly mesh

2. Make the low poly version

3. Rig the low poly version

4. Animate the low poly version

5. Bake the high poly onto the low poly

6. Texture

2 hours ago, bilbo92 said:

Do I actually need more than Unity and modelling software like Zbrush (If that is what they are called - please correct me if I'm wrong)?

Yes. zbrush isn't an animation software package. You'll need something like Blender, 3DS Max, Maya, or something similar to work with as well.

2 hours ago, bilbo92 said:

Is ZBrush the choice for me or am I just doing a very costly mistake, because it can't actually do what I think it can? Or do I end up having to buy a lot of other different software aswell if I buy ZBrush in contrast to some other software solutions? 

I have no idea, you'll have to make that choice for yourself. Try out software demos if they're available. You can sculpt in other software as well. Zbrush, Sculptris, Mudbox, Maya, and Blender.

3 hours ago, bilbo92 said:

Can I actually live without ZBrush or any of all these expensive software solutions?

Yes. There are alternatives, a google search will help you find those packages and their prices. Otherwise Blender is a free option.

Be prepared to devote several years learning the craft. You'll have to deal with learning all the packages, 3d modeling, sculpting, animation, and texturing. There is also a lot of technical things you'll need to learn, especially when it comes to having proper topology when you go to animate.

One final note, if you're going to work in 3D make sure your computer is high end. I would suggest investing in a good CPU, the max amount of ram you can get, and a good graphics card. You'll also want a drawing tablet if you plan on doing any sculpting and texturing work.

Best of luck.

Programmer and 3D Artist

12 hours ago, Rutin said:

One final note, if you're going to work in 3D make sure your computer is high end

I got a windows 10 64-bit, i7-7700k CPU with one Gigabyte NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080, DDR4 3200 MHz 16GB ram - would that suffice? 

But I don't get why would you need a low poly mesh and a high poly mesh? isn't the high poly mesh just for things that needs to be very detailed, while low poly are for things that doesn't needs to be very detailed, like a concrete block with windows e.g. vs a very detailed model like e.g. Kratos from God of War? why would you need both on a high and low poly mesh of the same thing?

Texture maps are built from the high poly version using the texture coords of the low poly version. During the transfer, the two mesh geometries are positioned on top of each other and the software shoots rays from the low poly and records the hit information on the high poly. The maps generated are usually ambient occlusion, per texel normals, displacement and even diffuse can be pulled from the materials. These are for the more advanced lighting models, while the approach you took is also perfectly valid for simpler lighting models such as vertex normal shading as apposed to per pixel lighting where the extra map information is used or for a modern pbr workflow.

Edit: For me, blender is all I need. Especially after an improved paint interface (still not perfect) and dynamic tessellation. I picked up blender at the tail end of version 2.49 and before that I was a Maya user.

1 hour ago, bilbo92 said:

I got a windows 10 64-bit, i7-7700k CPU with one Gigabyte NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080, DDR4 3200 MHz 16GB ram - would that suffice? 

Yes.

1 hour ago, bilbo92 said:

isn't the high poly mesh just for things that needs to be very detailed, while low poly are for things that doesn't needs to be very detailed, like a concrete block with windows e.g. vs a very detailed model like e.g. Kratos from God of War?

No. The detail you're seeing isn't because it's a high poly mesh, it's because of baking, and texture quality. I convert all game models to low poly regardless of it being a window or main character. This all gives an illusion of high poly.

I'll give you an example using a model of a funny character I made for the GameDev Summer Baseball Challenge.

This is the high poly version which is 1.7 million polygons.

image.png.3516a2345aea491cca9358a339ec0d5a.png

It would be very hard if not impossible for me to uv unwrap this properly, rig it and make sure weights are correct, and animate it. That being said, the model itself is way too heavy for a game engine. There is just too much geometry to deal with...

This is why I had to make a low poly version like this which went from 1.7 million polygons to only 5000.

image.png.faf7010b2fc1021d3a043c73ff0d2d00.png

Since I'm dealing with a lower poly count, my view port will move a lot smoother, and I can rig and animate the model much easier. UV unwrapping is also much easier. Now, keep in mind depending on the animation quality your polygon requirement will change. For this model I didn't care as it ended up just being for a challenge game that I had a tight deadline on, and worked just fine. He would be on the very low count side though at 5000.

The end result rendering the 5000 polygon model after baking and texturing:

post1pic-player.png.f95c7b6ab9f71b0cf9650807dd214353.png

All of this will come with experience as well.

Programmer and 3D Artist

As of this moment I think I get 50% of what you are trying to tell me @Rutin and @GoliathForge but thanks for trying, guess I'll understand it better once I truly get all the steps and have tried it myself.

However what software did you use yourself Rutin? is it all just blender, or?

@bilbo92 try googling for "game character pipeline", it's a nice umbrella term.
I think @Scouting Ninja has some experience in this area, maybe they can help.

As I understand it, there's two reasons why people like to sculpt a high-poly:
1) To clearly separate the 'form' step from the 'topology' step when making the mesh*.
2) To have a hi-def version of your model to bake a normal map (and other maps) from. It's a special effect. Normal mapping allows you to give the illusion of high detail without the geometry cost.

*So while sculpting you only worry about form and following the concept art of your character. When retopologizing you only worry about topology, making sure that it's optimal and that it satisfies the specs of the mesh (density, animation-friendly etc.).

6 hours ago, bilbo92 said:

As of this moment I think I get 50% of what you are trying to tell me @Rutin and @GoliathForge but thanks for trying, guess I'll understand it better once I truly get all the steps and have tried it myself.

However what software did you use yourself Rutin? is it all just blender, or?

I used zbrush for the sculpting, but I had to make my own brush alphas. I then brought the mesh into Blender for rework, rigging, and animation. Baking was done in Painter, and texturing as well. I also used Photoshop as needed.

21 minutes ago, Kryzon said:

As I understand it, there's two reasons why people like to sculpt a high-poly:
1) To clearly separate the 'form' step from the 'topology' step when making the mesh*.
2) To have a hi-def version of your model to bake a normal map (and other maps) from. It's a special effect. Normal mapping allows you to give the illusion of high detail without the geometry cost.

*So while sculpting you only worry about form and following the concept art of your character. When retopologizing you only worry about topology, making sure that it's optimal and that it satisfies the specs of the mesh (density, animation-friendly etc.).

Depending on the mesh I'll use both forms of mesh creation interchangeably. There are times when I'm sculpting something then I need to export into blender to add some shapes or sub-meshes or make some adjustments, then importing back into sculpting software, ect... I personally prefer the sculpting work flow for organics, but will mix as needed. I've also created hard surface objects by sculpting. Either way, I'll use the best tools I find for the job, and if it means exporting and importing a bunch of times, I'll do it to get the desired end result. :) 

Programmer and 3D Artist

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