You should go to college for programming or business if you want to design games.  You will need to either be a programmer, or found your own company to be a pure designer.  It if very likely, a near certainty, that you will waste your entire life attempting to become a pure game designer.  I don't want to see that happen too you.  It is very important that you become a programmer or have the business knowledge it will take to fund and manage your own company.  If you want to be the kind of game designer that appear to be envisioning, study business management and finance at college so that you can fund and create your own company to create the position for yourself.

There is no level of experience, knowledge or achievement that will guarantee you a career in game design.  You will be playing the lottery with your life if you pursue the path of "pure game designer".

3 hours ago, Kavik Kang said:

You should go to college for programming or business if you want to design games.  You will need to either be a programmer, or found your own company to be a pure designer.  It if very likely, a near certainty, that you will waste your entire life attempting to become a pure game designer.  I don't want to see that happen too you.  It is very important that you become a programmer or have the business knowledge it will take to fund and manage your own company.  If you want to be the kind of game designer that appear to be envisioning, study business management and finance at college so that you can fund and create your own company to create the position for yourself.

There is no level of experience, knowledge or achievement that will guarantee you a career in game design.  You will be playing the lottery with your life if you pursue the path of "pure game designer".

Nonsense, like usual.

Whlie it's true that nothing will guarantee a career in game design, nothing will guarantee a career in anything.

Game designers are hired on a regular basis. You not being hired does not mean game designers aren't hired. As has been explained to you again and again. There is proof that game designers are being hired. You claiming otherwise is pure trolling at this point, and you should honestly feel ashamed for trying to trick people into believing in your delusions.

I think it is wrong to give young people the impression that there is this career out there that they can aspire too, that is like being a movie director.  That's how younger people are envisioning it, and it is wrong to encourage them in that belief at this moment in their lives and lead them down a path that, almost certainly, leads to nowhere.  The job that these young people are envisioning is akin to the director of a movie, and to have that job they will almost certainly need to create their own position by creating their own company.  Telling them to pursue a career as a pure game designer is like telling them to gamble their life on a lottery ticket.

If they want to become what you are thinking of when you say "game designer", then they should become a programmer.  They will have a FAR better chance of succeeding that way and, if they fail, they will still be a programmer and have no trouble finding employment in a different area of that field.  If they are trying to become what I mean when I say "game designer", then they should study business management and finance so that they can create that position for themselves.  If they fail in becoming a game designer, they still have degrees in business management and finance and should do well in life even if it is not as a game designer.

This is not about me at all, this is about them.  I believe it is morally wrong to lead 20 somethings, and especially high school students as this person is, into the false belief that there are "game designer as movie director" jobs out there waiting to be filled.  There aren't.

Enough please Kavik.

The original poster is looking to have some questions answered by people employed in the field, and while I appreciate that you were credited on one professional product, you've also made it well known that you have not found success in our industry.

There is a nugget of truth in your advice that a designer in the sense that many young people think of it is not an entry level position, or they may in fact be better suited to a producer role (also not entry level) the simple fact is that pure design decisions do exist, and some junior roles are even available as entry level.

Depending on the OP's idea of what a designer does they may well need to adjust their expectations, but your inability to find success as a pure designer does not mean the same will happen to others.

Consider this a formal moderation instruction, in line with some of our recent conversation: you may share your experience, but you should be clear that it is your experience and does not reflect on the industry as a whole.

7 hours ago, Tiny Giraffe said:

Thank you, and I was wondering, you said that it didn't pay well but all the research ive done pointed to a minimum of 40k, but it should be noted this was all done on companys not indie designers, Is this from experience as an indie designer?

$40k is barely anything. Let's say rent costs $2k/month. There's 12 months in a year, so you're looking at spending $24k just to pay rent. Add on top of that any car payments you may have, food, entertainment, etc. If you ever plan on having a family, kids are expensive so you can expect to pay a lot for clothes, food, activities, etc. Also, you get taxed on your income, so expect a 30% reduction on your income which goes towards paying taxes. 30% of $40k reduces your annual income to $28k, of which, $24k goes towards rent, leaving you with about $4k left to pay for everything else. It's not really doable. Some of these expenses can be lowered by the city you live in and its cost of living, but... $40k is nothing. You can find other jobs which are easier and lower skill which pay more than $40k.

An indie developer salary income from $0 to $2 billion (See: Notch). The median and average are quite low, and the income is a function of many variables, which mostly depend on the indie developers themselves rather than external factors. Most indies don't make enough money from their own sales so they have to take on contract work or do their indie projects on the side while the hold down a day job.

Suggested reading: A frank look at making games professionally.

A few notes:

It's true that roles in professional game development often pay less than similar roles in other industries. Many people do manage to make a living of it though, and you can certainly work your way up from entry level (or transition to indie) if you enjoy the work.

Yes, there is a lot of competition for a relatively small number of AAA roles, but there's a lot of professional development at smaller scale than AAA. This may or may not be suitable for what you wish to do.

Ultimately, I think a core piece of advice is that you shouldn't get into game development to get rich; if that's your goal you're probably better off in another industry (and maybe make games as a hobby). Get in to gamedev because it's what you want to do, and see if you can make a living of it.