Yep, I agree wit Fresh.
It''s hard work especially in America, 15-20 hours a day is possible.The stress is too much, and the earnings are in general low. Some companies in the UK, gives a senior programmer a nice salary and bonusses. But thats for the senior "Old" code guy.
Artist is also a stressfull job.Also coding and drawing contains much boring routines. Don''t forget that and that for a crappy salary.

Problem is that if the salaries are too high and the profits
are low, the game won''t break even. So thats also one of the main reasons why the salary rate for an hour is not higher then for instance of an IT consultant. Also a database programmer
earns nice. But it won''t be much more then a game programmer.
In the sentence that a database coder becomes rich. I worked a year ago for a call company as a database and also internet programmer. The salary was nice, but not that I am a rich man.

The problem is that the work of a game programmer is much harder then the work of a database guy. That''s why I prefered that a game programmer needs to earn much more.
But it won''t be happen. The time is over.
10 years ago it was possible to earn much more and to get rich(as (contract) programmer and as development company),
nowadays it isn''t possibile in general .

The game producer(project manager) earns nice. But an IT consultant earns much more.

I believe you if you say the pay is low and the work hard. However, even if there''s room for improvement in both qualities, game programmers aren''t migrating to the regular IT business, are they? To me that means they must receive a lot of enjoyment out of something in their jobs and it''s gotta be the thrill of making games ''cause I really can''t think of any other reason to stay in the grinder.

Also, I''d like to say to all the people wanting to break into the industry that if you are convinced you have talent, have a lot of patience and are willing to push as hard as you can, you have a fair chance. If you bear with me, I''ll tell how I did it...

In December 1996, after 3 years of undergraduate studies in Industrial Management (MSc), I ditched the still unfinished corporate studies and made my choice to push into the game industry since it was the only thing that really felt tempting to me. I had virtually no contacts, and experience only on a couple of very amateurish failed hobby projects.

Three long years later I graduated with a Master of Arts degree. My final thesis was a 100-page game design document. I was already hired by a tiny new company whose owners were also enthusiastic about getting into games.

My ticket into the business was the cell phone game development boom that hit Finland in 1999/2000. In my job, I got to develop some real games for a real market.

And finally, in March 2001 I was a speaker at the GDC in San Jose.

Now, the mobile games I''ve designed aren''t as exciting as PC or console titles but I got real, quite satisfactory pay and real game design experience. Currently, one of the games is live at Vodafone / Omnitel in Italy - an operator with 18 million customers. I''m still kinda dazed how quickly things have happened.

My point is, if you keep at it relentlessly, through the lack of money, through the not-so-exciting starter jobs, and at the same time you build up your contacts and nurture your game-related skills, you may find unexpected opportunities. And it all starts by believing you can do this, even if you are not yet quite sure where exactly this path will lead you to. If you doubt your chances, then you''re in real trouble.

I think for me the real turning point was the decision to put everything I got towards a job in the game industry - I wouldn''t have got a position as a designer if I had divided my energy between the "regular" corporate world and game design. I had to plan my strategy so that I had the maximum amount of insight for a person who hadn''t yet worked in the industry - that''s the most likely candidate to get a position when something new comes along.

Now, think for yourself - this approach has a lot of risk attached, but it worked out for me. Good luck, whatever you choose.

- Lasse

quote: Original post by Edward Ropple
I don''t know about WizWorks. They''re...not exactly well-off. They need cash infusions, fast. However, an indie mini-publisher might be better. They concentrate in one or two countries, typically - good thing - and the ones I''ve talked to about my game I''m working on - albeit a niche one - have quoted about 75%+ profits to me. Not bad, I''d say.

Exactly how do you know this? Or just guessing?

Their projects cost the least of any in the organization theyre in to do because theyre budget, and they often have very good sales, especially for the budget. So as a company alone their model is stable.

However, theyre not a company by themselves, theyre owned by Infogrames, so theyd have to be bleeding Infogrames to be in trouble, and I think waht Ive heard is more like they are one of the foundations keeping money coming into that organization consistantly.

So unless you know something inside about them, youre speculation about them being in trouble seems pretty suspect.

anonymous poster:

sometimes spikey''s mouth flies off the handle and i''ve seen him
regularly post opinions and views on things he
knows nothing about.

my suggestion would be to ignore him.

He, what a joke.
The anonymous poster above needs to go back to school He or she can''t read well. Mr AP I am an experienced developer, with several publisher deals

You are very low level minded , the poster before you mentioned not me, but Edward Ropple.

Original post by Edward Ropple
I don''t know about WizWorks. They''re...not exactly well-off. They need cash infusions, fast. However, an indie mini-publisher might be better. They concentrate in one or two countries, typically - good thing - and the ones I''ve talked to about my game I''m working on - albeit a niche one - have quoted about 75%+ profits to me. Not bad, I''d say.


So follow my advice and go back to school to learn reading

"It''s hard work especially in America, 15-20 hours a day is possible.The stress is too much, and the earnings are in general low"

And in third world countries is far worse. Is it worth living in such conditions? To me the answer is no, but why so few people commit suicide? In the USA (I don''t know numbers in other countries) it''s the 8th cause of death, for people at ages 15-25 it''s the second with accidents being the first, about 35000 suicides a year, 100 a day, 1 every 15 minutes. I know it''s of topic but unless you find a job you love or have no need of money then working just sucks.
Mmmm, if you want to make donations to a lazy sod send them to... nevermind.

quote: Original post by Drizzt DoUrden
Whoever the moderator is, I think they should discontinue this post. Though I realize it is the disgusting truth, you can''t tell this crap to 13, 14, 15, and 16 year old kids. Just because the industry sucks right now, does''nt mean it will be that way when they start. Maybe if the industry decided to listen more to what the kids had to say thier games would sell better. And if the programmers arent getting paid enough, go on a god damn strike. After seeing this, I decided to take up another career and do this as extra.

This kind of post is important. It weeds out the "game programming is k3wl and I can get rich for doing games" people, from those who are serious about it. If you''re in it for the money, it''s a bad decision. If you''re in it because you reckon your home-grown idea will sell a million copies and make you famous, it''s a bad decision. But, if after reading all this, you still want to be in the industry, then you''re the right kind of person for it. And can play a part in changing it, if you so wish.