How important are social connections in the current MMORPGs? I''m looking to have Tombstone have many missions require having connections in order to fullfill them. Say for instance you need to show an NPC a very rare item. When one person completes that mission, they keep the item. The next person who wants to complete the mission has to hunt down the current owner of that item and bring it to the NPC. For common items you could complete the mission by aquiring any one of the items scattered throughout the game world by a variety of means. Or should missions reset themselves? Once a required item is handed to the NPC it''s returned to it''s original location. I think the first option would make the game as non linear and random as possible. Thoughts? Ben http://therabbithole.redback.inficad.com

Constructive Criticism:
I dont like it.

Why:
What if that player isnt logged on when you are?
What if that player is a little bitch and doesnt give up the item?

These are just 2 quick thoughts within a minute of readings. In both cases the player needing that object either has to wait indefinitely to get the object orrr, a moderator of the game must become involved. Either way, the game just got annoying really fast.

Many, many discussions in this forum revovle around trying to come up with non-linear game play in RPG''s (mostly with NPC''s perfoming actions which are not scripted). In most cases, the problem is that without some scripting, the player may never be able to go further in the game without some "event" between NPC''s happening.

I think the above example can relate very much to your question. If 2 players must meet, ala one must get an item from another, then the game could get sour very quick for the person in need.

In defense of your idea:
Obviously the flip side is if you have players who are logged in a lot and they will "behave", then yes this interaction will happen and now you have players "creating" an immersive world you want. I strongly suggest you look into Anarchy Online''s way of how they intend to use Player Created Quests, such as posting a bounty. It sounds similar to what you want, so maybe its a good way to increase game play for mmogames.

Visit my Webpage and Project: LoreQuest

Ahem, sorry GQ, but all the game has to do is pick an item and then check if its owner is online or not. If s/he isn''t, then it can just choose another item.

But you''ll probably say "What about if they leave during the Quest?" (right?) Then I would recommend that each player have a residence of some sort, and when they are gone, certain items are left there (save for essentials like weapons, armour & provisions).

Items aren''t being kept track of to where it would be possible for the server to not allow certain items to be stored in inventory on exit.

Actually, residence is kind of taken care of. When you log on, you start in the exact spot you left at. I could have it so that on exit, a player''s inventory is dropped where they stand.

Every tile in the world can be built or destroyed so a fixed residence isn''t really possible. It would be up to the player to find a secure location prior to exiting.

We havn''t really settled on anything but for PKing we''re thinking being dead just means you can''t move. You would have to log in as another character and drop some health items within reach or wait until someone shows up who''s willing to help out.

If that''s fair, just beating the crap out of the little bitch who won''t hand over the goods would be a possibility as well.

This is the old west afterall.

Ben
http://therabbithole.redback.inficad.com

I have to agree with Galaxy Quest. I think the system as you explained it would probably be very frustrating at times. But I think that with a few modifications, you could have a system which really enhances the game.

One problem is that requiring a PC to obtain a unique item is a demanding task. As Galaxy Quest pointed out, there are some obvious problems with that. On the other hand, requiring the PC to provide items of a certain worth might be less frustrating. A player may have slmost no chance of obtaining the Sword of Projectile Vomiting. But he will be able to obtain items which, when added together, might be comparable to the fair market value of the Sword of Projectile Vomiting. So that might be something you could consider.

Another problem is that the idea of requiring the PC to complete a certain task, defeat a certain opponent, etc., in order to progress in the game is a game mechanic which is difficult to implement well even in the best of circumstances. I can''t help but feel it would be even more difficult in a MMORPG. (I''m hoping to see an article about this on Gamedev soon. If you see an article called "Lock Mechanisms in Game Design", that''s the one. You might like to check it out.)

I would also like to say that I''m concerned about the idea of the player not being able to keep the items he has gained during the game when he finishes a game session. This could eliminate the worth of some of the rewards the player attains. Why should the player spend four hours hunting down the Pimple Faced Herring in search of the fabled Wand of Unquenchable Thirst when that item will disappear shortly afterwards? Perhaps I''m not clear on how your system works. But if the player really would lose earned items, I think that should probably be reconsidered.

I''m sorry if this sounds like a mostly negative post. I don''t mean it to be. I''m interested in your system, and I think that creating incentives for interaction between online players is very important.

I think it might be a good idea to consider the Pokemon games. Love them or hate them, they are enormously popular. And whether or not Pikachu gives you the willies, the Pokemon games really are well designed.

One of the great things about the Pokemon games is that trading is an option. It is not required. The player is free to ignore the trading aspect, and play the game by himself. But the trading ability really adds to the game. Is there a way that a similar, optional system could be incorporated into your game to add this player interaction you seek?

I really hope you make progress with this. Player interaction is the strongest feature of MMORPGs. Anything which enhances it, or focuses attention on it, is bound to lead to a better game. And that will help the genre to evolve to attain more of its potential.

Good luck!


Jonathon

quote: "Mathematics are one of the fundamentaries of educationalizing our youths." -George W. Bush

Leaving the session could potentially put the player at risk for looting. How secure the character is when they leave would determine how likely the items will still be there when they return. Banks can be built and guards can be hired.

All missions are currently item based. Not even NPCs have set character numbers making it pretty impossible to require the death of a certain character. It could be accomplished by giving an NPC a very valuable item priced very high. You could either trade other items for it or beat the NPC to death in order to lower the price to how much the NPC values it''s life. The same could be done to PCs.

Some missions could require days of searching but there is an unlimited number of potential missions. Many could be set up which require very common items to complete.

Ben
http://therabbithole.redback.inficad.com

quote: Original post by The Godfather?

It could be accomplished by giving an NPC a very valuable item priced very high. You could either trade other items for it or beat the NPC to death in order to lower the price to how much the NPC values it's life. The same could be done to PCs.

You mean like make 'em an offer they can't refuse?

quote:

Some missions could require days of searching but there is an unlimited number of potential missions. Many could be set up which require very common items to complete.

Yes, I think common items would work better.


Edited by - Jonathon on May 18, 2001 3:10:08 PM

You idea is very similar to something I have been tring to design. I come up with a possible solution, as long as you dont limit how many quests (within reason) who cares if players can hoard items. Also dont put a Time Limit on quests. If A player needs to hunt down another character for a specific item thats their problem ( just like life you dont get many breaks ) make them work for it. Doing that would open up possibilites for player controled quests, such as offering a bounty or reward for the person that brings you the items, in effect allowing for people to take sides and form groups. The only problem I ame up with this is what if a person gets the item and then doesnt play the game anymore, for whatever reason, there needs to be a time limit so if you dont play for a certain time the "rare items" would be taken from their inventory and put someplace where people have to quest for it. E-mail me if you want some help or maybe just to kinda collaborate ideas.

WorkboxJones@netscape.net


"There is humor in everything depending on which prespective you look from."

The server has no clue what''s going on as far as missions are concerned so there''s no way to have a time limit on them.

Rare items will mostly be items that are created by other more common items. So if someone leaves town never to be seen again with the "Sword of Projectile Vomit" or whatever, chances are your mission will require finding the pieces to build another.

The only possible concern I have is that the mission log file is purly client side and not too difficult to modify. The only thing that might be to a player''s advantage is to delete an easy mission record in order to do it over again and recollect the rewards. Adding records will do nothing.

To ease the "where''s it at?" factor the NPC will keep track of the name of the last person who completed the mission.

Ben
http://therabbithole.redback.inficad.com

To time the missions just keep track of the date the mission was assigned and make it when a certain number of actual days pass the mission is removed from the log. I''m not sure of your design so this may not even be able to be considered.

In my personal opinion one of the only true ways to make never ending story as non-linear as possible is to cut down with NPC interaction as much as possible. As long as there are NPC''s the game will have to follow some sort of routine for them to act and react. This factor instantly make takes out the randomness. It is a given that a game will have to have NPC''s for some interaction, but to keep the game more on the non-linear side quest interaction with them will need to be cut down to a minimum. This is my personal opinion and a quest system like this would be a big design issue, but i thought i would throw in my two cents.


"There is humor in everything depending on which prespective you look from."