Just read a review of Kingdom Under Fire (which mentions something like an RTS and RPG game in one -I think you can actually play the game in two different settings). Got me thinking: If you design a game, why not design it as a multi-layered game. My own personal dream game is a grand warfare RTS type of game (but without resource gathering etc, think Warhammer-style). I want to have individual units and platoons in it. How would this become a multi-layered game? Well, we already have the RTS part in there, which is the gameplay using tons of units in platoons. Those platoons could be given a game of their own. Kind of like a prequel to the RTS part those platoons could be sent off to do quests/battles in a different type of gameplay. Think more of a tactical combat game where a group of about 10 or 20 units try to tackle a problem. For convenience let''s just see this as a Baldur''s Gate type of gameplay. Those platoons are formed by many units, so what if we design yet another layer for the individual units? Think Blade Of Darkness or something similar. The main goal in this design would be to have each layer affect the others and to really make them depend on eachother. A player would not be necessarily to play all three types of gameplay, but it might put him at an advantage if he does. For example, those units inside a platoon might function better after performing some quests in individual mode. And those platoons might perform better in the big RTS war after learning how to work as a team in ''platoon'' mode. Seems like a lot of work and a lot of difficult programming, but I think it could add a lot of depth to a game. I personally like the character development part in games. But I also like controlling large numbers of armies. If each indivual unit in my army be given his own history (series of quests completed) it would give me more emotion when I''m controlling all those units in one big battle. Can you find anything useful in here or is this just a fantasy dream of someone who doesn''t know how difficult it would be to create it in reality?

SWEEET!
I have been thinking along these lines for a while, mixing two incompatible things together (realtime/turnbased strategy) and other mixes that would allow players to play at the level of control they like. For instance, in some strategy games, I get kind of frustrated because there is too much to control. But it would be nice if I had the choice to just control 10 or 12 of the units. Like Fallout tactics or something. Have you played the Operation Flashpoint demo? It''s an ultra realistic military-unit action simulation. What''s cool about it, is you can be part of the unit, with the commander telling all the soldiers where to go and what to shoot, or, you can be the commander, and then YOU get to order everyone around. There are many more possibilities of this, but multilayering is hard to develop because it is sort of like developing 2, 3, or more seperate games and trying to get them to work together.

I''ve been thinking along those lines for a while myself. I think its perfect for MMOs. The sole adventurer on the road is playing an RPG.

Meanwhile another character has managed to become mayor of a city, they now have to deal with assigning plots of land for other player-organisations, leveling taxes, paying for the running of those organisations under the city''s control (Militia, police, refuse collection, water, etc) - essentially, everything in a game like "Sim City", but doing it from the perspective of "Sim Copter" - within the city itself. The mayor is still in the RPG, the lone adventurer can still attempt to slay him/her one-on-one, but the mayor now has all the problems of an RTS to deal with.

Neat to know that other people share my thoughts; I too have been thinking along these lines, and I think the key thing that you mentioned was depth. Several different ideas seem to be floating around, which could all be turned into something really cool, and they all get at adding depth to a game and making it a more immersive experience. Needless to say, I am extremely interested in where games like this could lead.

OctDev

When I think of depth, I think of the extent of the world in which the player-character exists. What you guys are saying sounds very similar. Allowing the player to explore the world through different means (i.e., through different styles of gameplay) will make the world seem much more dynamic and plausible.

Here''s my dream: I want to play a first-person shooter that dumps you right in the middle of a massive battle. The entire game takes place on a war-torn world with burned-out cities and trench-ridden battlefields. You only play one character, but you can take charge of entire platoons and issue orders much like the command menu in Unreal Tournament.

The idea is that the world is filled with things bigger than you. ''Mechs wander through the streets, firing at each other and blowing apart the buildings that you just might be occupying. You''ll be able to hijack vehicles and drive them through the streets or across the landscape. (I forgot to mention, Mechwarrior would be the ideal setting for this game.)

Anyway, the idea is that all sorts of things are happening around you in real-time, many of which you can directly affect through you own actions (e.g., drive a tank into the legs of a ''mech). The upcoming game PlanetSide (Verant Interactive) looks like it might fulfill a few of my wishes, but it''ll be a while before this dream comes true.

Check out Mabsark''s post in the Help Wanted -> Team wanted to create mass multiplayer RPG/RTS thread, if anyone is interested in working on a project along these lines. Sounds like fun...

Kesmai used to be doing something like that with BT. It was called Multiplayer Battletech 3025 i think.

the idea was to have everyone start out as simple mechjockey, and then gradually let them rise up in ranks, top players getting command of whole sections of an empire, ferrying troops between star systems, planning attacks and so on....

There are probably a lot of possible mixes of layers, but those that seem to be most appealing are the simulation/tactics ones.

Lowest level is the streetgrunt, the fighter pilot or whatever, above that comes the squadleader (commanding a handful of grunts - difficult to implement), and above that various levels of command. Either moving around troops, or managing a base or commanding a huge spaceship or the whole fleet...

A mixture of Mechcommander and Mechwarrior would be trés cool... two players to keep the overview for each team and the rest fighting it out...

definitely something worth following... although there will be difficulties where two levels meet. How do you tell your grunt exactly where to go? Do you reward him with experience points or will he be a good soldier on his own? How do you "protect" this system from inexperienced players who just want to rush in and kill stuff?