Right, this is a idea I had. It does have parts influenced by well... Wavinator, and others ... Anyway. So you want a game with less boring details, and more ''higher up'' actions, right? ala Wavinator''s Rail post. So the problem is, how to represent these higher action without boring the user? First I thought of an battle. How to make it interesting, yet more higher up so you have more choices? And how to integrate the Tree of Death thread ideas? (I.e. care not the actions, but the results So, I thought of an stacking system of actions. Like, in real (or pen and paper) life, you think ahead: ''do defense only till I have a good idea on how to kill this massive beast''. So there''s going to be a default stack, like, press this and this to say (or more accurately, order your RPG self) to go on the defensive 100%. So the RPG character will protect itself, blocking, etc. without you working much in lowlevel details. However every ''sec'' (which depends on your ''intelligence'' values in the game) you can order or stack more orders. Like, retreat, (you retreat, but that takes time), and then stack ''use bow on rocks'' - you point to the rock above creature (once you''ve retreated, you draw your bow and attack rocks). Which then causes the stability value in the area to lower. Once it reaches a threshold (which in this rocky cavine is VERY high - i.e. very unstable) the rocks fall, crushing the creature beneath it. Also, if your intelligence has been made higher by something acting on you or in the area (perhaps you''ve taken Matrix training ... ''Free your mind, Neo'') you can stack and do more per ''sec''. More like a interactive round. So conceverably (sp) you could stack and do a ton of stuff before any other creatures has even reacted. (Thinking whip out bow, kill first 10 goblins in before they''ve moved). Also if your fighting someone better, there is a element of skill, you will have to think fast and further ahead fast to keep up. Like, in chess, but interactivized and well better. So there could be nuances in the fighting. Or talking. Or anything else. An example: stack b.s. with bartender while (using your high pickpockting skill) pickpockting him. But, the bartender happens to have a default stack of ''oversight'' and catches you. Quick! You stack run, and also put defense to 50%. So when the bartender slashes you with a broadsword, you defend! Thus, more interactively, more options, and yet less grunt details. What do you think? ------------------------------ BCB DX Library - RAD C++ Game development for BCB

It''s a good idea (as the rail post has been discussing)

I like the idea of stacking actions, based on something like your intelligence, but what about timing etc... how long does one stack element last, and how would you go about stopping stacked elements if something unexpected happens (like the creature dies of a heart attack).

A system is needed where you can combine actions into a sweeping statement, like scripting the entire event yourself.
However, as before, you are going to need a damn intuitive interface to get the player happy.

NB: If the above seemed entirely like woffal, it is, but it''ll tie me over until I can think of something decent to contribute.

-Mezz

Nice grammar pal.


Knife Guy

KnifeGuy:
Yeah, it is, ain''t it?

Now, back to the topic.

quote:
I like the idea of stacking actions, based on something like your intelligence, but what about timing etc... how long does one stack element last, and how would you go about stopping stacked elements if something unexpected happens (like the creature dies of a heart attack).

A system is needed where you can combine actions into a sweeping statement, like scripting the entire event yourself.
However, as before, you are going to need a damn intuitive interface to get the player happy.

Thats all true. Hmmm. I''m thinking of a little ''stack'' on the side of the screen. And, when a action is completed, it disappears using some nice FX, with the rest dropping (up or down).
Also, for the scripting - maybe you could set it up like the grouping system in RTS. Like: press Alt-B, do the sequence, then press Alt-B again, and then Alt-1. To execute the sequence, you press Alt-1 again.

About timing - it depends on how good the character is at the thing in question. Also then you can easily add special ''effects''. For example, to everyone else (computer characters included), it appears that you move super-fast, but to you its at the normal speed.

If the target / position / arguments dies or disappears, then the action stops. If it is part of a sequence, then the sequence stops too.

Maybe you could link the results of each action up to each ''input'' action after it. Then you could have automatic or enviroment action sequences working all the time - for example a ''overwatch'' one which could be ''spot enemy'',''stop moving'',''draw weapons in range''. More ideas later.

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BCB DX Library - RAD C++ Game development for BCB

quote: Original post by Knife Guy

Nice grammar pal.

Brain fart. *wavinator holds nose, waits for air to clear*


Ahem.

I like this idea of stacking. I think it would work with the concept AI settings for your character if it balanced automating the repetitive with making interesting choices.

I keep thinking that it''s important to approach something like this from a a context-sensitive, target oriented approach. I imagine being able to easily write click on an object, or region, and have a quick 5 item popup menu easily.

The more something like this gets worked into the interface and game fiction, the better. For instance, you''re flying a fighter (in a role-playing situation, not a combat sim) and you''re presented with manuevers: split S, immelman, etc.

I see something like this needing natural pauses in the action to work. This gives time to plan. For example, the brave rogue could crouch behind a sarcophagus, stack a run right / roll / fire, aim for the jewel eye, and dive through the door... and being able to stop and plan would make this possible.

?

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Just waiting for the mothership...

I''m now a zealot for this action stacking, as I really think it''s a good idea.
I''m still pondering over the interface, but Wavinator & c++freak seem to have come up with something...

Here''s my take, anyhow,

As Wavinator was describing, you have popup menus on different objects in the game, continuing his example, you have a popup menu on a tomb containing things about it / what you can do with it, i.e.

Tomb
-Description
-Actions

Description is fairly obvious, however, once you have performed one of the actions below (e.g. look) the description could contain some more information, like instead of just saying "This is a mouldy old tomb" It could say "This is a mouldy old tomb with a small lever inside. Something like that...

Under actions you could have something like

-Crouch behind
-Look
-Open
-Dive across
-Get into
etc...

These actions could be stacked as proposed by C++freak, with something like a bar down the right hand side of the screen listing what you are going to do for your next however many actions, the trouble with this is you will need either word descriptions of the actions, or very good pictorial representation.
I would go for the pictorial representation, and perhaps limit the amount of actions a player can stack (so they remember what they are doing without having to really concentrate on the pictures), maybe have a limit of 6 actions stacked.

Further, as c++freak said in the first post, something about balancing defence / attack, so with these stacked actions you have your defence/attack bars which dictate how reckless you are.

I''m going to revisit the tomb example again...

Lets say you have your rogue, except she has a musket this time and not a bow.

So, you''ve gone into the room, you see a bad guy at the end of the hall and you stack actions to dive behind the tomb and fire at the monster.
At the moment, your defence bar is on zero and attack on max.
This corresponds to every time your rogue takes a shot from behind the coffin, she stands up, aims and fires, then reloads and repeats.
Now, with the defence/attack on 30/70 every time she fires she stands up, aims, fires, but ducks back down to reload.

With it on 50/50 she stands up, just takes a pot shot and ducks back to reload.

With it on 70/30 she only peeks above the coffin and fires.

On 100/0 she just puts her arm above it and blasts in the monster''s general direction.

I hope you can see how this system could be extended to other types of situation, like with defence high, the character would run away if a monster came close, with attack high they''d probably dive in and beat them to a pulp.

Thoughts?

-Mezz

yeah, that was me.

-Mezz

oops wrong thread

Edited by - GameFiend on February 23, 2001 8:03:13 AM

Ahha, busy today, so haven''t have time to read this thread.
Anyway,yes, as Mezz said, this defense / attack bar thing sounds really good.
I just thought of The Sims, and how they (as I have heard) they radiate ''actions'' that can be acted upon. This could be applied here, using a bit of polymorphism. Like this:
(base list of actions radiated by all objects):
View,
Move To
(derived object might be a tomb):
View,
Move To,
--- These are the extended base list. These can be inferred from far away, with out close inspection. For example, a sword can be used to attack, even if you don''t know the exact type ---
Open Tomb,
Close Tomb,
--- however once you view the object, you get the extended list---
Pull Lever,
Push button

Thus you can get a extended and different list of actions per obect.


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BCB DX Library - RAD C++ Game development for BCB

We have a program at my work with an interface that would be excelent for this.

To write a simple program, you have actions, triggers, etc. represented by icons. You'd place these icons on a grid to make a flow. Arrow icons can be used to change the flow. As the player's intelegence increases, the size of the grid area can increase.

So, a grid could look like: (text representation)

table.htm

For implementation, I think you should be able to store actions as "skill sets". Then you can assign an action to a menu, keystroke, or an object type (lock,door,monster,person). If you click on an object that has actions associated with it, a list of names of actions pops up.

E:cb woof!

Edited by - Dog135 on February 27, 2001 2:24:15 PM