Does a game designer need some especific college. Programming knowledge helps? I''m between programming and design and can''t decide what to try! Maybe both? #include

Programming, definitely. Every company I know needs programmers, almost nobody needs designers. Well, maybe level designers, but they don''t get paid squat.

$0.02

I don''t think there are formalised ''Game Design'' qualifications... but in terms of skills needed...

You need to know a bit of everything. You don''t have to be a top programmer, but you certainly should understand what kind of limitations a programmer faces, what they can be expected to do and what they can''t. The same goes for the art side. You should understand the tools people use for the jobs they do, since they may limit certain design decisions. You should be pretty literate and capable of explaining yourself concisely, unambiguously and accurately in a way that anyone else on the project can understand. You should probably be able to do a little of everything, whether that is coding, art, level design, or whatever, as it will give you a greater understanding of what can be done and more reasonable expectations. Also, it helps to be well-read, especially in non-fiction and history, and experienced with many different types of game. The ability to see the good in a bad game and the bad in a good game will also help.

Other ideas?

game design is not one bit about programming. However companies don''t hire designers, they promote programmers to designers. So you have to become a programmer first if you want to become a designer.

quote: Original post by Anonymous Poster

game design is not one bit about programming. However companies don't hire designers, they promote programmers to designers. So you have to become a programmer first if you want to become a designer.

Probably true which would explain why there is so many crap games on the market and why so many games fail.



Eco Terrorist - a name given to people who work in favor of the environment. Very interesting yes?

Edited by - Paul Cunningham on January 3, 2001 10:30:44 PM

In two words, and my opinion, here is what a Game Designer needs to know: the consumer. Other than that, as was mentioned before, a Game Designer needs to know what it takes to make a game and should have an understanding of what each part entails. Without that, a Designer can design a GREAT game that NOBODY can make. I think all of the afore-mentioned suggestions are a good generalization as to what a Designer needs and also a realistic outlook. Almost nobody is hired on as a Designer (unless maybe they have prior work with lots of good games they designed, aka a resume''). Your best shot is to learn programming (specifically all aspects of programming that touch on games: audio, video, interface, GUI, threading, conditionals, etc...) and maybe design your own game while working as a programmer. Show that to your boss and maybe it''ll become a game and then maybe you''ll be set onto your then new career. Good luck!

Charles Galyon

Sorry this is War & Peace length, but just formerly "in the trenches" observation:

Game design right now is religion. Design philosophy right now is very nascent. There''s no way to prove or disprove many concepts on paper. This gives suits and beancounters less respect for what you do because there''s not a big body of work or philosophy behind it. (And, with the proper physique, seemingly anyone, regardless of experience can be a Game God these days)

Because of this, you''re left proving your concept with argument / persuasion, mock-ups, or full protos / demos. I think I''m good at the former, but the latter two are how you really get results.

I found that if you want to get something done at a company, and you have no tech skills, networking, politics (*sigh*), and a track record are vital. If you do not know programming or at least scripting, you will be completely dependent on someone who does. Unless you''re paying them (and even still) this can be a very frustrating experience.

Volunteers generally suck unless you find someone who has exactly the same vision. If you have no technical power, be prepared to compromise your beloved vision or reimburse someone for their time. (Scale this vis a vis your vision).

It is possible to be a designer. People do it and make money. I understand, tho'', that it is contract work: You''re not really needed after the design phase, and you will often be looking for work. Until you have a rep, it doesn''t pay very well ($30k US in Silicon Valley from what I heard, which is pretty sucky for this area).

One way to start is level design and documentation. Not glamourous, but a start.

Remember that everyone has ideas. If you want to be a good designer, be prepared to test your ideas against others. This steeply contradicts the tendency I see in so many people to be paranoid. (If you''re a good designer, you''ll constantly have great ideas... so don''t sweat it, test yourself and learn)

Another w/o coding skill is choice of work. If you''re a coder, you can work on your own stuff w/ the hope of actually producing something. You can grab someone''s engine, adapt it, and make something that gets close to your dream. But if you are solely a designer, then at the end you''re stuck with no more than a well written doc. (Or you could give up what you want to work on and get into designing for the mass market)

Now that doc could get shopped around. But as a doc, as things are right now, it''s more likely that it''s going into the sock drawer. (I''m sorry that''s so harsh, but it''s not uncommon for a publisher to get 10-20 doc only submissions a week, most of which get the dreaded form letter).

With some tech skills, at least you stand a better chance, even if it''s only shareware...

--
PS: ABSOLUTELY NO OFFENSE meant to design only folks. I''m not saying what SHOULD BE, only what I experienced.

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Just waiting for the mothership...

quote: Original post by Anonymous Poster

game design is not one bit about programming. However companies don't hire designers, they promote programmers to designers. So you have to become a programmer first if you want to become a designer.

quote: Original post by Paul Cunningham
Probably true which would explain why there is so many crap games on the market and why so many games fail.

Man, I wish this was true. I really, really do.

But it's like with Hollywood: Even a perfectly designed (or written & acted, in Hollywood's case) work isn't enough. The game industry has its share of critically acclaimed flops, just like Hollywood (Looking Glass's Terra Nova: Strike Force Centauri is one HUGE example burned into my brain).

Even a company's whose heart and soul are in the right place re: design can still go under. Remember Looking Glass? Dammit, if perfect design was all it took, Theif & System Shock 2 would have held them up. Even Interplay was looking grim, 'til they got the D&D license stuff to save their hides.

The fact is that you're dealing with many factors:

Timing: Did your competitor release the same thing, even tho' it's crappier, & get all your customers to already spend their X-mas money?

Marketing: Do they even know about your game? Did your company exhaust the budget on R&D & Production & have nothing left over for the mags & retailers?

Retail Pressure: Did you have enough to pay for end-cap placement, or the co-marketing they demand??? Did you have enough money to bribe the retailers to keep your game on the shelf long enough for it to even have a chance? (THREE WEEKS! That's all you get right now)

Fickle, Shallow Consumers: In design & gameplay terms, it's the Second Coming. But you spent 3/4 of the budget on features, engine, and story, yet you're using an engine that was hot six months ago. What do the reviewers say? What do the customers say? Ick. Dated. God help you if you can't show off cutscenes, hire James Earl Jones to do the on-screen acting, and render everything with a $250,000 engine...

*sigh* okay, I'll stop now... just saying it's not all about design, even if it should be


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Just waiting for the mothership...



Edited by - Wavinator on January 3, 2001 11:40:46 PM

quote: Original post by Wavinator

Remember Looking Glass? Dammit, if perfect design was all it took, Theif & System Shock 2 would have held them up. Even Interplay was looking grim, ''til they got the D&D license stuff to save their hides.

Just to be picky, System Shock 2 was designed and developed by Irrational Games, not Looking Glass. SS2 just utilised the Theif engine and got some funding from LG for the project.

And for the person who said you dont need to know squat about programming to be a designer...well yea sure, you could probably swing that, but you would be a much better designer if you could consider the programming implications in attempting to implement feature X, Y or Z into you game. Better to find that feature Y will take 2 years and 2 million dollars extra when the game is in concept stage than when 6 months and 500,000 dollars has already been blown

Oh, and to be a designer? Play games, lots of them. See movies, lots of them. Read books, lots of them. And with everything you do in life consider how it was done, why it was done, and how you could make it better.





Drew "remnant" Chambers
Game Designer
Irrational Games

quote:
--anon---
game design is not one bit about programming. However companies don''t hire designers, they promote programmers to designers. So you have to become a programmer first if you want to become a designer.
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Paul Cunningham

Probably true which would explain why there is so many crap games on the market and why so many games fail.

That is soooo true. Most programmers (including myself) cannot design for #@%^. And if they can, then I bet they can''t program


There are so many people who think they can design when they can''t, and it is starting to annoyme now.

(end of mild rant)