Get your rotten tomatoes ready, this idea may deserve it... The Game: A 3D isometric SF RPG The Problem: Space is pretty boring terrain. What about adding "hyperspace" to explore? The Details: On land you can add plenty of interesting caves and coves as hidden treats to reward a curious player. But space, save for big rocks and gas clouds, is pretty tame. If you''ve seen Babylon 5 or played Star Control 2 you might understand: A map that represents a different dimension you travel in to get to another star. Hyperspace would be a map with weird effects, strange dangers, and very colorful graphics (like the DS9 wormhole interior). If the route to a star were unexplored, a player would have to brave the "wilderness" of hyperspace to get there. How Would It Work? You''d enter hyperspace at the edge of a star system. Simply being inside exposes a ship to particles and forces that do damage to ship and crew. Without a ''hypershield'' ships quickly perish. The hypershield only lasts for so long, and doesn''t regenerate, so you have only a limited time to explore. It sort of acts like provisions settlers of the Old West carried. Inside hyperspace gravitational forces vary and change. There are swirling vortices, energy storms, and other hazards. Some parts would be more "storm wracked" than others. What you''d be looking for is a hyperspace exit node at the destination to enter normal space. You want to find it before your hypershield collapses and your ship starts taking damage. Why Do This? An interesting place to find things (lost ships, ancient artifacts)... A navigational challenge you could get paid for... Another aspect to exploration that has challenge and risk... (You would not have to do this for explored stars that have ''roads'' in the form of bouys or jumpgates, btw) -------------------- Just waiting for the mothership...

Beacons exist in Hyperspace so you don''t go wandering. And by limiting the time you can spend in there, you are effectively ensuring a LOT of people are going to hate you when they die again, and again, and again ....

I say no. But that''s me. I''d rather explore planets outside known space than fool around in Hyperspace.

And on the topic of Babylon5, how about including the physics of opening a jumpgate INSIDE a jumpgate, or in a planet''s atmosphere... muhuhaahahaha ....

quote: Original post by morfe

Beacons exist in Hyperspace so you don''t go wandering.

Right, and I thought these WOULD exist on settled routes.

quote:
I''d rather explore planets outside known space than fool around in Hyperspace.

Me, too. But my problem is that there AREN''T any planets to explore. Just solar systems filled with rocks, stations, and planets you can''t land on. Not too mysterious...

There isn''t really any hidden territory (like an undersea cave, or dormant volcano) that makes for interesting terrain.

quote:
And by limiting the time you can spend in there, you are effectively ensuring a LOT of people are going to hate you when they die again, and again, and again ....

Hmmm... I wonder, then, if there''s another way to make exploring hyperspace risky?

I''m really trying to shoot for the Louis & Clarke type of experience. The land is unknown, the dangers unclear. I COULD just do this system by star system, but there''s not really an opportunity (except for nebulas) to give the player a change of scenery...

quote:
And on the topic of Babylon5, how about including the physics of opening a jumpgate INSIDE a jumpgate, or in a planet''s atmosphere... muhuhaahahaha ....

Hahaha! Maybe...



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Just waiting for the mothership...

To prevent players hating you when they get killed in hyperspace all the time because they cant find a way out.. you could:

* allow the player to create thier own ways out of Hyperspace too, but if they dont use a standard exit point then they get dumped in some totally random part of the galaxy, (probably many miles from anywhere, except a hostile invasion fleet... oh dear.

* Make it act slightly more like the star trek warp drive (which creates a subspace bubble arround the ship, once that collapses the ship "re-enters normal space") In that once thier hypershild collapses they get dumped out of hyperspace.

just a couple of ideas... I''ll add more later

How about the option of exiting hyperspace when-ever you want but being dumped in an unknown area? The factors that could effect an exit from hyperspace is: the pressence of massive objects(they can pull you out if you not carful)(blackholes , the velocity of the ship in hyperspace, and the type of ship parts(have a better nav system you can get from a->b faster & more accuratly).
This way the Beacons just tell you were to head and were to exit (or alternatly were not to go . And allow the ships entry & exit to disturbo hyperspace some how.
Ie Entering hyperspace : addes energy to the area of hyperspace around your ship (this allows other ships to detect were you enter hyperspace, just track inc in average energe in hyperspace)
Exiting hyperspace :pulls energy out of hyperspace, radiating in the form of heat and light around the ship that is exiting, this gives the possibility of tracking exits (it is kind of needed for civilized space), and gives the chance to net some free energy. This free energy could be absorbed as heat and light.

I like this idea. Very cool.

I think it will add a really nice texture to the game.

My idea is to have a combination of effects that people have sort of already mentioned. Use the idea of a star trek subspace bubble that when it collapses you fall out of hyperspace. However what happens if something happens to you in hyperspace that jams your hyperspatial drive? You might get stuck in there until you can fix it and possibly be subject to hostile forces lurking in there or some other kind of environmental effects? Radiation, gravity wells or something.

I like the idea of navigating through some sort of uncharted territory and coming across some ancient, derelict ship (or imagine a fleet of ancient warships who cruise hypersace becaues they have found a way to live there).

I like the idea of beacons, it''s like, here is where you start and you keep going in this direction until you hit another beacon that either says ''turn to x,y,z'' or drop out now... if you go out earlier you may end up somewhere weird or you may just end up in some empty space that is between systems (imagine being stranded their forever )

You could also have some kind of ''new'' physics that takes control in this space (no laser fire for instance or something).

Better nav systems could be cool as well because you may have a sophisticated enough ship to not need beacons at all as it can plot where to go (or a pilot that can perhaps?????)


-- No matter what they do, how hard they are or cold they want to be, their mind will always give them away. That is the moment to strike and leverage their weakness --
The birth of Psychic Treason

You could include many things in the hyperspace, like stations wich could allow ships to be repaired or refitted, so they can explore further without having to go back to normal space.
Do you know david Brin, he describes several levels for hyperspace. From A to F if I remember. Each level has it''s own physic, advantage and problems.
Level D if I remember works with symbolic representations. The problem being that if the symbol representing your ship change...
Depending on your species, you could prefer to use some levels and avoid others.

A thought that trys to expand on some of these ideas.

I you allow the player to jump out of hyperspace when their shielding is low, then the player won''t die in hyperspace all the time. You wind up in some location in space, which is typically (though not necissarilly always) too distant from anything important to just use thrusters or whatever to get to. Then, if beacons were say something you could buy and were found in normal space, deploy a beacon for a rescue ship to come help, or maybe a passing trade ship can sell you another shield, or metals to repair the one you have. If the player is broke, then perhaps negotiate a mission or favor of some sort in exchange for a new shield. Of course, if the player winds up in this situation from time to tim, why not the occasional NPC?

"Captain, we''re detecting an unidentified becon ahead."


Perhaps also normal space and hyperspace have an effect on each other in some way. Like maybe a star causes a little distortion or something. Might be a way to try and find stuff in normal space, or vice verca.

Maybe it's just my memory being defective, but I remember talking about this a while ago, with you (Wavinator). Actually, it was in the Writing forum, while you were researching the story.
Do you remember me talking about the Warp from the Warhammer universe ?
It's a parallel dimension much like the Warp in Babylon 5, were daemons run free, and hunt on unsuspecting ships. Navigating the Warp is MUCH faster than using Hyperspace drives, but it's also MUCH more dangerous, as death is probably the best of the bad things that could happen to you in there ...
As well, navigating the Warp on long distances is impossible without the aid of a special navigator called and Astropath.
I could dig up all the appropriate references online if you are intereted

The Warp has the nice property to be a "magic" concept rather than a scientific one like the Hyperspace. Which allows you to have wandering daemons, weird events, and most useful, the Warp storms, that can cut off an entire system from the rest of the universe ... why do I say that ?
Well ... how are you gonna prevent the player from deciding to go outside of your area of game (since you designed a limited portion of the universe).
A Warp storm is the cool (and easy), answer to this

youpla :-P

Edited by - ahw on December 25, 2000 3:10:27 PM

Thanks for the great suggestions, everybody! Maybe this idea isn''t as bad as I thought.

Revision
If your hyperspace shield collapses, you drop out of hyperspace. But if you don''t drop out near an exit node, you end up in a random part of space (because hyperspace doesn''t map to normal space and changes)

You also can pop out with random ship damage and the need to make repairs. (This way, if the player starts using this to randomly explore the map it''s not without some risk)

You can launch a distress beacon. It may attract "Coast Guard" rescuers, passing traders, or even pirates.

"Coast Guard" rescuers will tow your ship back to a friendly port and charge you a fee.

Traders will trade spare repair parts if they have them and your reputation is good.

Pirates may simply try to rob you of your cargo. You may want to make ship repairs if you can before sending the call, or launch the beacon and hide.

Question
If the player has a bad reputation, is damaged, and finds himself in the middle of enemy territory as a result of exploring uncharted hyperspace, is this a fair gameplay state? (The player''s made his own bed, so to speak)

This wouldn''t happen if the player stuck to known routes or had a neutral or good rep with everyone. Is it fair to make this a risk of exploring the unknown, or too heavy handed?



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Just waiting for the mothership...