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What is arcade anyhow?
Author
What is really separating arcade games for home computer games? If you start work on an rpg or rts etc, when does the game become arcadish and when is it not? Why havn''t FPS''s taken off like wildfire in the realm of arcadeness? Are the controls too complex to have a quake like arcade game?
"So you're the one that designed that game are you?"
*Gulp* "Umm, yeah"
Have you not been spending entire paychecks in the local arcade in the last few years PC???
Area 51, and its multiple spinoffs ARE arcade-FPS''s
It does the thing that computer-style FPS''s can''t....uses actual laser-based GUNS as its aiming instead of a mouse.
Usually the plot lacks, well nm/ as all FPS/action plots lack pretty badly. But the fun of actually having to aim by yourself.*drool* Probably the most innovative of these was one called Time Crisis i think...when you ''fired'' it a weighted action actually pulled back and caused recoil like a real gun. So in answer, no the FPS craze never missed the arcades, it just changed form.
-Run_The_Shadows
-Run_the_Shadows@excite.com
Area 51, and its multiple spinoffs ARE arcade-FPS''s
It does the thing that computer-style FPS''s can''t....uses actual laser-based GUNS as its aiming instead of a mouse.
Usually the plot lacks, well nm/ as all FPS/action plots lack pretty badly. But the fun of actually having to aim by yourself.*drool* Probably the most innovative of these was one called Time Crisis i think...when you ''fired'' it a weighted action actually pulled back and caused recoil like a real gun. So in answer, no the FPS craze never missed the arcades, it just changed form.
-Run_The_Shadows
-Run_the_Shadows@excite.com
Crisis Zone is one of the best of those arcade FPSes I''ve seen. You have this machine gun, and basically anything is destructible. It''s supposed to be set in a shopping centre somewhere, and so you get lots of books and CDs and cool stuff blowing up.
PS. The guns aren''t laser based at all, the way they work is:
Whenever you fire them, the screen flashes. A timing circuit in the gun picks up this flash and compares it to the refresh rate of the monitor, getting an x and y position on the screen. This is how you can have Playstation light guns.
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#pragma twice
PS. The guns aren''t laser based at all, the way they work is:
Whenever you fire them, the screen flashes. A timing circuit in the gun picks up this flash and compares it to the refresh rate of the monitor, getting an x and y position on the screen. This is how you can have Playstation light guns.
------------------------------
#pragma twice
first run: not all FPS''s lack plot... havent you ever played Half-Life? I consider that game the BEST of very few FPS''s that actually have something resembling a plot... most are are just senseless violence which isnt bad.
Never played Crisis Zone so i cant comment on that but i have only seen one true FPS in the arcade (however the name slips my mind). i really didnt like it for the sole fact that the controls were not easy to use. in my opinion a mouse is a definite necessity for thses types of games but it could just be my personal preference.
any game that requires you to save and pick up later is not arcadish... i.e. RPG''s, RTS, etc.
i could be wrong.
yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, today is a gift...
Never played Crisis Zone so i cant comment on that but i have only seen one true FPS in the arcade (however the name slips my mind). i really didnt like it for the sole fact that the controls were not easy to use. in my opinion a mouse is a definite necessity for thses types of games but it could just be my personal preference.
any game that requires you to save and pick up later is not arcadish... i.e. RPG''s, RTS, etc.
i could be wrong.
yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, today is a gift...
Area51 and its ilk aren''t really FPS games. These games are shooting galleries on rails. You have either very limited or no control over your movements.
What makes a game arcade or not is the turnover rate. If you can define gameplay in segmented bursts that have very finite time limits such as a 3-lap race around a fixed course, or the duration of a song, or a time-limited best of 3 fight, then you have something that might be well suited for the arcade. The last thing an arcade operator wants is somebody camped in front of a 1 player game all day on one quarter.
Control sets are also important. If your game requires a mouse, then you''re in for trouble. Operators prefer games that have standardized controls, so they can just slam the board into an existing cabinet. Specialized controls require more money and the manufacturer has to be convinced that the game in question is worth the extra money.
$0.02
What makes a game arcade or not is the turnover rate. If you can define gameplay in segmented bursts that have very finite time limits such as a 3-lap race around a fixed course, or the duration of a song, or a time-limited best of 3 fight, then you have something that might be well suited for the arcade. The last thing an arcade operator wants is somebody camped in front of a 1 player game all day on one quarter.
Control sets are also important. If your game requires a mouse, then you''re in for trouble. Operators prefer games that have standardized controls, so they can just slam the board into an existing cabinet. Specialized controls require more money and the manufacturer has to be convinced that the game in question is worth the extra money.
$0.02
quote: Original post by Anonymous Poster
Area51 and its ilk aren''t really FPS games. These games are shooting galleries on rails. You have either very limited or no control over your movements.
Spot on, Anon. The revenue model for arcade games doesn''t lend itself to lots of freedom of movement, wandering, and exploration. I think the common goal of chomping quarters means that you have to expose the user to a consistent level of challenge. Even games like Gauntlet II (not FPS of course, but much more freedom of movement) present you with hordes of enemies and constant conflict.
I also think it''s harder to be more emotionally involved with what''s going on in the game. Replaying old arcade games via MAME shows me that they are __NOT__ conducive to drawn out experiences, and that means little or no story, advancement, building up, etc. Maybe when people plug their own hard drives / memory chips into the cabinet this will change.
--------------------
Just waiting for the mothership...
quote: Original post by Paul Cunningham
If you start work on an rpg or rts etc, when does the game become arcadish and when is it not?
I'm thinking about this a lot right now, and what trade-offs you get w/ arcade vs. the traditional RPG approach. MAME's been giving me a lot of insight.
Top down shooters are what I'm studying, so I'll give you my insights from there:
COLLISION / HIT DETECTION - Look at the combat model in most arcade games. Whether or not you get hit and take damage isn't based on some stat, it's directly tied to the UI. Hit or collision detection is (or almost is) pixel level, putting a great emphasis on movement over, say, economic decisions (like which armor you've purchased). I notice that in most arcade games, one hit usually equals death. This means that more dexterous folks have a natural advantage, and older folks who may not be as quick will be cut out from enjoying the game.
QUICK DECISIONS - The more quickly you have to make decisions, the more you're in the realm of arcade. Arcade games thrive on throwing a lot of stuff at you in a short period of time, making you think fast. This has a direct (and maybe negative) impact on depth.
SIMPLE GAMEPLAY: Complicated decisions require time to think, to plan, to strategize. This is what makes deep strategy games and RPGs awesome. But the quick decisions imposed by an arcade game, while making gameplay exciting, also has a tendency to dumb it down. This is probably why Diablo doesn't have, say, jumping, ducking, sidestepping, etc.
REPETITIVE GAMEPLAY: The learning curve imposed by quick and simple gameplay is naturally short. This gets people into the game quickly, but I think has trouble keeping them there. Because of this, level 9 looks an awful lot like level 99 with different textures/graphics. To me, this is the greatest failing of pure arcade games, and I'm not sure how to fix it without changing gameplay or adding depth.
PATTERNED PLAY: Last point. This is the bane of adults and the joy of 12 year olds everywhere. Jump three times, turn right, press fire twice, then duck. This is the fabric of many a pure arcade game that presents wave after predictable wave. This can lead to the terror that is repeat and die gameplay; gameplay becomes a puzzle, and thus predictable, which can kill the excitement level.
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Just waiting for the mothership...
Edited by - Wavinator on October 12, 2000 5:11:16 PM
Author
So would you say that halflife or quake is an arcade game? I completely forgot to mention VR in my first post. As i understand and as it''s already been mentioned that -arcade- means ease of control (my add is -->) with a very low learning curve. But that''s not exactly true either becasue then you''ve got games like tekken with are the complete opposite. So is it just a hardware issue like what annon and Wav said?
Re:Wavinator
I know what you''re saying here but it''s really only half true. And as you said, you''re taking your examples from mame games which are old. What i''m talking about is ''these days''. Can you tell me one game that''s in the arcades right now that work on the principles you''ve described above? Because i can''t think of one.
It seems like this. Decide now or let someone else play the game.
Wouldn''t you agree that patterned play and repetitive play are pretty much the same thing. I know that a lot of arcade games are avioding pattern in the effort to make people lose and thus put more quarters in. But i guess they are still repetive when it comes to control of the character, which is what you were saying yes?
"So you're the one that designed that game are you?"
*Gulp* "Umm, yeah"
Re:Wavinator
quote:
COLLISION / HIT DETECTION - Look at the combat model in most arcade games. Whether or not you get hit and take damage isn''t based on some stat, it''s directly tied to the UI. Hit or collision detection is (or almost is) pixel level, putting a great emphasis on movement over, say, economic decisions (like which armor you''ve purchased). I notice that in most arcade games, one hit usually equals death. This means that more dexterous folks have a natural advantage, and older folks who may not be as quick will be cut out from enjoying the game.
I know what you''re saying here but it''s really only half true. And as you said, you''re taking your examples from mame games which are old. What i''m talking about is ''these days''. Can you tell me one game that''s in the arcades right now that work on the principles you''ve described above? Because i can''t think of one.
quote:
QUICK DECISIONS - The more quickly you have to make decisions, the more you''re in the realm of arcade. Arcade games thrive on throwing a lot of stuff at you in a short period of time, making you think fast. This has a direct (and maybe negative) impact on depth.
It seems like this. Decide now or let someone else play the game.
quote:
REPETITIVE GAMEPLAY: The learning curve imposed by quick and simple gameplay is naturally short. This gets people into the game quickly, but I think has trouble keeping them there. Because of this, level 9 looks an awful lot like level 99 with different textures/graphics. To me, this is the greatest failing of pure arcade games, and I''m not sure how to fix it without changing gameplay or adding depth.
PATTERNED PLAY: Last point. This is the bane of adults and the joy of 12 year olds everywhere. Jump three times, turn right, press fire twice, then duck. This is the fabric of many a pure arcade game that presents wave after predictable wave. This can lead to the terror that is repeat and die gameplay; gameplay becomes a puzzle, and thus predictable, which can kill the excitement level.
Wouldn''t you agree that patterned play and repetitive play are pretty much the same thing. I know that a lot of arcade games are avioding pattern in the effort to make people lose and thus put more quarters in. But i guess they are still repetive when it comes to control of the character, which is what you were saying yes?
"So you're the one that designed that game are you?"
*Gulp* "Umm, yeah"
I think of an "arcade" game as one that you can play in 2-3 minute bursts. For instance, you lose your 3 pac-man''s and it''s over.
You can continue in many games, but for the most part, each game takes only a minute or two, then you have to re-pay.
A "home" game on the other hand can last for hours on end without "inserting another quarter".
Take Diablo for instance...
While playing Home Diablo, you can live forever if you want.
While playing Arcade Diablo, your health may go away much like it does in Gauntlet. After so many minutes, boom you''re dead.
You can continue in many games, but for the most part, each game takes only a minute or two, then you have to re-pay.
A "home" game on the other hand can last for hours on end without "inserting another quarter".
Take Diablo for instance...
While playing Home Diablo, you can live forever if you want.
While playing Arcade Diablo, your health may go away much like it does in Gauntlet. After so many minutes, boom you''re dead.
Paul,
You''re right, my observations were more from the sidescroller / top down shooter days. Since just about __EVERY__ frickin'' game is a fighting game variant now, though, I guess you can make very general statesments about *those!!*
Still, the Collision Detection aspect holds if you think how important user interface / control mechanics are to the game. Arcades feature a lot of, ummm... joystick jerking, for lack of a better phrase. And button mashing. In just about every case, it''s dextrous mastery of the UI that goes a long way toward winning the game: shooting games (Silent Scope, Time Crisis), racing games, fighting games... all place heavy emphasis on UI.
As far as repetitive gameplay and patterned play, they''re similar but not the same. What I mean by repetitive gameplay is that you do the same thing, over and over, with little variant. In most games, it''s shooting. Shoot this, shoot that! Changing graphics and opponents are the most used methods to keep you playing. Gameplay is static because there''s isn''t time to constantly teach you new skills the way most home (at least PC) games do.
Patterned play you can see with a popular fighting game like Tekken 3. The combo moves themselves are patterns, and a lot of the game is about recognizing, responding to, or duplicating them. And look at a game like LA Machine Gunners or Silent Scope: The game is chopped into stages, and you''re moved on rails from one stage to the next. As this happens, the enemies are predictably located in pretty much the same places at same times, and pretty much do the same things. This has held constant since the early days.
So one of the things to recognize about arcade games is that they by and large seem to place heavy emphasis on memorization, and quick reflexes. This suits the younger set much more than the older, on average.
--------------------
Just waiting for the mothership...
You''re right, my observations were more from the sidescroller / top down shooter days. Since just about __EVERY__ frickin'' game is a fighting game variant now, though, I guess you can make very general statesments about *those!!*
Still, the Collision Detection aspect holds if you think how important user interface / control mechanics are to the game. Arcades feature a lot of, ummm... joystick jerking, for lack of a better phrase. And button mashing. In just about every case, it''s dextrous mastery of the UI that goes a long way toward winning the game: shooting games (Silent Scope, Time Crisis), racing games, fighting games... all place heavy emphasis on UI.
As far as repetitive gameplay and patterned play, they''re similar but not the same. What I mean by repetitive gameplay is that you do the same thing, over and over, with little variant. In most games, it''s shooting. Shoot this, shoot that! Changing graphics and opponents are the most used methods to keep you playing. Gameplay is static because there''s isn''t time to constantly teach you new skills the way most home (at least PC) games do.
Patterned play you can see with a popular fighting game like Tekken 3. The combo moves themselves are patterns, and a lot of the game is about recognizing, responding to, or duplicating them. And look at a game like LA Machine Gunners or Silent Scope: The game is chopped into stages, and you''re moved on rails from one stage to the next. As this happens, the enemies are predictably located in pretty much the same places at same times, and pretty much do the same things. This has held constant since the early days.
So one of the things to recognize about arcade games is that they by and large seem to place heavy emphasis on memorization, and quick reflexes. This suits the younger set much more than the older, on average.
--------------------
Just waiting for the mothership...
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