but i think it is quite a serious issue. We are starting to get more games than ever before that crosses the lines between genres and we've probably got 3D to thank for it. Are the lines between genres becoming more and more blurred as we push for the ultimate games or are the lines becoming clearer and more defined?
And how do you express game elements to the player that is easily understood so they know what they are buying. I'd rather sell 10,000 copies of my game to the people that would like it and cherish it rather than 25,000 to people who thought they were buying something else and didn't like the game much. So i think its becoming ever more important to distinct gaming elements for the sake of making a game that can be explained to the purchaser so they will understand what the development teams are all about. There's little success for people who aren't understood/yes?
I love Game Design and it loves me back.
Our Goal is "Fun"!
Edited by - Paul Cunningham on 9/21/00 7:29:11 AM
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Percentage of game elements = genre?
Author
What's really separating genre's from each other? This probably sounds quite simplton'ish but i think it is quite a serious issue. We are starting to get more games than ever before that crosses the lines between genres and we've probably got 3D to thank for it. Are the lines between genres becoming more and more blurred as we push for the ultimate games or are the lines becoming clearer and more defined?
And how do you express game elements to the player that is easily understood so they know what they are buying. I'd rather sell 10,000 copies of my game to the people that would like it and cherish it rather than 25,000 to people who thought they were buying something else and didn't like the game much. So i think its becoming ever more important to distinct gaming elements for the sake of making a game that can be explained to the purchaser so they will understand what the development teams are all about. There's little success for people who aren't understood/yes?
I love Game Design and it loves me back.
Our Goal is "Fun"!
Edited by - Paul Cunningham on 9/21/00 7:29:11 AM
but i think it is quite a serious issue. We are starting to get more games than ever before that crosses the lines between genres and we've probably got 3D to thank for it. Are the lines between genres becoming more and more blurred as we push for the ultimate games or are the lines becoming clearer and more defined?
And how do you express game elements to the player that is easily understood so they know what they are buying. I'd rather sell 10,000 copies of my game to the people that would like it and cherish it rather than 25,000 to people who thought they were buying something else and didn't like the game much. So i think its becoming ever more important to distinct gaming elements for the sake of making a game that can be explained to the purchaser so they will understand what the development teams are all about. There's little success for people who aren't understood/yes?
I love Game Design and it loves me back.
Our Goal is "Fun"!
Edited by - Paul Cunningham on 9/21/00 7:29:11 AM
I think every medium has the problem with genres. It happens with music too. Look how many bands got tossed in the "alternative" category. Then with the game Thief...it was not exactly an FPS as we know it...although it was first-person and 3d. It seems like it''s not so much the developers that define genres so much as the marketing people. It is a real problem though.
Sometimes I agree with Nazrix, that it''s a problem. We get walled off into our own little ghettos and we''re not supposed to step over the lines. For example, when I''ve proposed, say, having a ship combat game where you can get out and fight on the ground, I''m told: THAT''S 2 GAMES! I''ve come to think of it as the blustering of the unimaginative.
OTOH, sometimes I want know what I''m getting into, be it for books, movies, or games. Mostly this this happens for me with simpler games: I want to know it''s just a shooter, or platform jumper, or whatever (heh, ususally so I can avoid it)
I think that even as tech improves, you still have gameplay issues to deal with. Do I have economics in this game? Is there combat? How many tokens do I control?
We''re probably creating more refined genres (Classical Rock, Hard Rock, Light Rock, etc.) more than working toward the uber-genre game. (In fact, I may be creating the world''s first Role-Playing Empire Sim. It''s not an RPG, it''s not an empire game, and it''s not a sim, but it has elements of all of these.)
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Just waiting for the mothership...
OTOH, sometimes I want know what I''m getting into, be it for books, movies, or games. Mostly this this happens for me with simpler games: I want to know it''s just a shooter, or platform jumper, or whatever (heh, ususally so I can avoid it
)I think that even as tech improves, you still have gameplay issues to deal with. Do I have economics in this game? Is there combat? How many tokens do I control?
We''re probably creating more refined genres (Classical Rock, Hard Rock, Light Rock, etc.) more than working toward the uber-genre game. (In fact, I may be creating the world''s first Role-Playing Empire Sim.
It''s not an RPG, it''s not an empire game, and it''s not a sim, but it has elements of all of these.) --------------------
Just waiting for the mothership...
Wavinator, slightly off=topic but having ships combat and FPS style combat in one game is a fine idea except for the amount of work it adds in all departments (physics, AI, game design). It may be one game, fine, but it''s two games (or 1.8 games) worth of work.
Mike
Mike
genres dont'' matter i mean how many times you play a rpg and it doens''t feel like an rpg
on some sights and you see diablo as rpg...
to me rpg means it has decent story(or length)
action means maybe realtime combat not turn based
platform means jumping and run(mario! sonic! bandicoot)
strategy usually means you have more then one thing...like two poeple 250 people not just one person...
realtime to me means over head view..
but you can''t judge by that..no substitute for "plays like this"
or "looks like that" classifications
on some sights and you see diablo as rpg...
to me rpg means it has decent story(or length)
action means maybe realtime combat not turn based
platform means jumping and run(mario! sonic! bandicoot)
strategy usually means you have more then one thing...like two poeple 250 people not just one person...
realtime to me means over head view..
but you can''t judge by that..no substitute for "plays like this"
or "looks like that" classifications
I think instead of genres you should say "you collect items" instead of adventure/platform for mario (well 64 was collecting items)
collect items beat boss
Strategy should say "command your troops and send them to battle"
or "sneak into the base with small teams"
a small description..
hehe q3a "hold the trigger down and run"
instead of first person shooter
need a view genre...and gameplay genre. hehe
collect items beat boss
Strategy should say "command your troops and send them to battle"
or "sneak into the base with small teams"
a small description..
hehe q3a "hold the trigger down and run"
instead of first person shooter
need a view genre...and gameplay genre. hehe
Author
BeachHead was about 6 games in won if i remember correctly. And what about all of those olympic games. So what happens if 1/3 of the game is rts, 1/3 is fps and the other third is rpg. I mean, they''ve got to write something on the box, right?!
I love Game Design and it loves me back.
Our Goal is "Fun"!
I love Game Design and it loves me back.
Our Goal is "Fun"!
quote: Original post by MikeD
Wavinator, slightly off=topic but having ships combat and FPS style combat in one game is a fine idea except for the amount of work it adds in all departments (physics, AI, game design). It may be one game, fine, but it''s two games (or 1.8 games) worth of work.
Mike
I hear what you''re saying, but where does this begin and end? You could justify chucking modules of *any* game more complex than solitaire with this thinking, couldn''t you?
Any time you mix genres, you get some of A and some of B, not all. This is where good design comes in. So rather than all the enemies and features you''d get in Freespace and Half-Life, you only get some. Less enemies, levels, gameplay options, etc., but a different, combined experience.
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Just waiting for the mothership...
Wavinator,
Some advice I once read was that you shouldn''t Cross genres, as that will appeal to neither of the fans of the 2 genres. But instead you should combine the aspects of the genres to make a single game.
Some advice I once read was that you shouldn''t Cross genres, as that will appeal to neither of the fans of the 2 genres. But instead you should combine the aspects of the genres to make a single game.
quote: Original post by Ketchaval
Wavinator,
Some advice I once read was that you shouldn''t Cross genres, as that will appeal to neither of the fans of the 2 genres. But instead you should combine the aspects of the genres to make a single game.
Yes, I''ve heard too that this is An Evil Thing To Do (tm). I don''t really buy it, because by combining and creating something new, you are still crossing. Diablo''s a perfect example: It''s not a pure RPG, nor is it a pure action game. They risked (and did) piss off fans from both camps, but fortunately for them people were more flexible than expected.
It has a lot to do with how entrenched your audience''s expectations are, and how different the elements are (a sidescrolling business sim?!?!?!?!)
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Just waiting for the mothership...
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