quote: Original post by Ketchaval


So how about making systems where more things seem to happen spontaneously, ie. ecosystems , or just a pretend food chain (depending on mood of creature.. hungry + NOT frightened = Attack "rabbit"). NPCs could attack other NPCs if they are angered etc.

Ketchaval, bud, you''ll always have a place here at my virtual table. We''re on the same wavelength.

I was just thinking of this as it applies to battles. Let''s say you want to stumble on a battle already in progress. Further, assume you have decent AI for your game actors (orks, or starships, or whatever).

If you randomly or semi-randomly place your actors; and randomize or alter in a some semi-random manner their stats (damage level mainly I was thinking), then you may well have a sense of a natural encounter. You could encounter a fight that''s just beginning, or ending, or somewhere in between; you might find a pitched battle, forces in the middle of a retreat, etc.

Now add a further wrinkle: Who the actors are determines what is going on. Let''s say we spawn a bandit and a lightly armed trader. We could get the middle of a robbery, or it''s end, or it''s beginning. Lots of possibilities.

The key I think here is in the AI and the situation generation. The AI for each actor would need to respond to the gamut of all conceivable situations. This sounds daunting, but simple rulesets and emergent behavior might be the answer. Rules like, "run toward friendlies when hurt" and "save my own neck before doing anything else" would seem to apply.

Situation generation, as I''ve seen mentioned before, should be tied to some sort of system (the ecosystem you mention is an excellent example).

As far as problems go, one major challenge will be balancing things. Systems will need a natural equilibrium that players can''t completely disrupt; this might help things like the monster depopulation problems in UO (which seem to be, oddly enough, much like a "deforestation" problem). Pacing will be another (not too much and not too little generation). Continuity will also be an issue (what happened to that merchant I just saved?!?!)




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Just waiting for the mothership...

The algorithms for this would be (should be) HUGE. To give a limited, semi-coherent example: Lets say there''s an area beset by brigands. (ever notice how they''re never robbers or highwaymen? always brigands) Now the player''s route to point B happens to pass through here. Is he attacked? Now, you could consult a lookup table for a *yawn* raw percentage, or you could apply a base percentage *yippee* modified by such common-sense variables as the seclusion of the area, time of day, the player''s talent at going unseen (if they choose to apply it),how richly the player is dressed, the number of people in the player''s party, how well-known the player is, and so on. Why bother you ask?

Why? Isn''t that bleedin'' freakin'' obvious? Jeez. Some people. Because now you have a system that the player can react to in many ways, and you don''t have to script it at all (ok, well a little). For instance, since the brigands are far less likely to attack a hermit, the player could go out of his way to dress himself and his party in the basest rags. (a value assigned to each article of clothing/armor representing its ''richness'' would not be overkill, as this would be applicable in several situations, such as a charisma modifier) If the player is trying to draw the brigands into a confrontation, he could leave some of his party back aways and advance alone, or accompanied by one or two. When the brigands attack, the player could call in the reinforcements. If the player is so foolish as to travel through dangerous woods at night, he deserves to be attacked. There could be some items with a "hideIdentity" trait for those famous (or infamous) enough to wish avoiding attention. The possibilties are nigh-endless, and w/out that terrible combinatorial explosion that happens when you attempt to open up a system to too many types of interaction.

Of course, this extends to what actually happens w/in the encounter as well. If you provide the player w/ a few ways of interacting w/ the world, and many rule-based ways of applying them, you can expect to have a great game that really engages the mind. And I do believe I mentioned: Doing it this way,you don''t have to script out every special encounter! That throws the only good objection towards more open-ended gaming out the window!

You do run the risk of the player never realising that there''s so many alternatives to simple hack ''n slash, but that''s more a topic for a different long-winded post.

But I''ll be back, so be sure to rest up your retinas. *cackle*

In the meantime, I''d really like to hear your responses. I prolly won''t be back tonight, but I''ll try and check back tomorrow evening.

If you see the Buddha on the road, Kill Him. -apocryphal

Heh.I tried making a ''real'' world for my RPG once.The AI was quite good, but there were some problems.

quote:
original post by me--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here''s something interesting for all of you dealing with AI out there.I''m working on a Role Playing Game called Runemaster, and until a few weeks ago I was working on AI.I wanted my monsters and NPCs to behave smartly and be able to learn...
(Note that the game will be very detailed, so even monsters and NPCs have to eat.)
OK, the whole thing was based on a database with the names of the monsters, theirs stats, the areas in the game etc etc.
In the beginning it was easy.I started with a simple if-code, and there were five areas in the game.Three "forest" areas, one "town" and a tower.There were three types of food : apples, grass and berries, with different nutririon values etc etc.
The monsters walked around the forest, eating when they were hungry (there were no graphics, just text - e.g. "blob eats apple at forest1").But they could learn.If they were in the same area as another monster that ate something else, they could learn to eat that also (very simple).BUT I messed up, using some functions the wrong way.One villager (man3) could go into the forest and cut down trees, with which he made food (not too realistic).

Here comes the funny part...when a monster was in the same area with the man who cut down trees, IT SUDDENLY LEARNED TO EAT TREES.This is the most stupid thing I''ve ever seen.
The story goes on...
Later I put a sorcerer in the tower.Sorcerers can cast what you might call "custom spells".The sorcerer also identified the monsters in the forest as his enemies.When I had gotten this far, I thought I might soon be able to implement this into the game.But there was one problem.The sorcerer did nothing.I could not understand my mistake (although, of course, it was one).Then, one day, I just let the progam run and waited.After about 15 minutes I get the message "sorcerer cast custom fireball // blob 999 damage // blob2 999 damage // tree1 destoyed // ... and so on, I even got ...//man1 800 damage // house1 destroyed // ... and so on.AND THEN I ACCIDENTALLY CLICKED ON SAVE AND MY WHOLE DATABASE WAS RUINED.
I won''t be doing AI for the next two months and concentrate on something else.

Watch the movie THE THIRTEENTH FLOOR.It''s great.

A lot of people were interested, back then.In the end Khawk told me to e-mail him with the source, which I never noticed cause my PC got f*cked...Now I''ve got a new one, but the code is gone....As soon as I''m finished with Acronia I hink I''ll re-write it ...


Runemaster now working on Acronia : Secrets of Magic
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