One thing that I really don''t like about certain games are that all of the monsters are really weak at the beginning of the game, and then progressively increase as the game goes on. Now this is expected as the player is weak at the beginning of the game, and also strengthens up as the game goes on. Hence building up stats and experience and health. (Note: this is mainly geared towards linear RPGs) I want to see games more like real life. Where there might be many weak creatures in a certain area (rats or something), but then there would also be stronger enemies right there in the same area. (maybe a wolf, who feeds on the rats). Now if I were a player who just started the game, I would be enjoying leveling up and so on killing the rats, until I accidentally came across the wolf. OH NO! Pow! and I am hurt really bad. The reasoning for this is easy. Why would all of the stong creatures be where they are? Why would little rats with 6 HP be at the beginning of the game, and then there are other rats with 60HP at the end? Shouldn''t there be some sort of consistency here? Now many games are using a relative system. (This monster will be 2x more powerful that my current strength) This does not appeal to me either. Because again, it is very linear as to how far along the game I am. I have already made this post too long. I do not have a solution for this problem, so hopefully somebody will. My only thoughts are that at the beginning of the game, the percentage of weak to strong enemies is high, and generally lowers until the end of the game where there are many more strong enemies. This means running away a lot at the beginning and a lot of button smashing at the end. So I need to come up with another way. Let''s all try to come up with a solution! -Luxury

Yeah, I like that idea about "safe routes". But again, it has its problems. look at zelda 2 on nes (i cant think of any more recent games right now - sorry). if you stayed on the path, then you were safe from people. as soon as you stepped off the path, then they would come after you. but the problem happens. at the beginning of the game, you battle weak little blobs, and at the end of it big goblins and things. still very linear.
and the warning systems is also a good idea, but im not sure if it really pertains to this.

im just concerned with the whole "i am weak, they are weak" approach. my being weak should have NOTHING to do with everything else.

i am also concerned with the regions of the game. at the beginning..all of the creatures are weak, and at the end, they are all strong. this just doesnt happen in nature. if there is something weak, then there is always something stong right next to it to eat it. if there are no weak things, then there are no strong things there either(what are they going to eat?).

come on people. I really want to come up with some ideas here! gimme your thoughts! open your brains!

-Luxury

quote: Original post by Luxury

I want to see games more like real life. Where there might be many weak creatures in a certain area (rats or something), but then there would also be stronger enemies right there in the same area. (maybe a wolf, who feeds on the rats). Now if I were a player who just started the game, I would be enjoying leveling up and so on killing the rats, until I accidentally came across the wolf. OH NO! Pow! and I am hurt really bad.

The reasoning for this is easy. Why would all of the stong creatures be where they are? Why would little rats with 6 HP be at the beginning of the game, and then there are other rats with 60HP at the end? Shouldn''t there be some sort of consistency here?

Yes, you have easily shown why the system of increasing NPC power is unrealistic.

Now, can you possibly shed some light on what makes your change fun? You summed it up right there:
"I would be enjoying leveling up and so on killing the rats, until I accidentally came across the wolf. OH NO! Pow! and I am hurt really bad. "
Having all those creatures of varying levels just interrupted your enjoyment, didn''t it?

Isn''t it going to be incredibly tough as a new player when some of the monsters nearby can kill you in a second?

Isn''t it going to be quite boring as an advanced player when 90% of the monsters near the climax can be slaughtered in seconds?

I think you need to re-evaluate your methods of charting your player-characters'' advancement and progression, rather than mixing up all the NPCs, who are generally placed in order of ascending difficulty to provide a gradually increasing, yet always reasonable, challenge.

The idea of having weaker and stronger enemies throughout the whole game is a good one, but it does need to be controlled a bit by where the player is in the game, since it would be annoying to bump into a dragon at the beginning of the game and nothing but rats near the end.

Maybe you could set a fixed range of possible levels for each enemy type, like rats could be levels 1-20, dragons can be 10-50. then keep the level of the enemy within a certain distance from the players level. Like level 5 player gets attacked by rat level 1, another rat level 10 and a dragon level 15.

Another thing you could do is increase the number of attackers if you use low levels compared to the player. Level 5 player gets attacked by 10 level 1 rats, or 3 level 12 rats. Level 45 player gets attacked by 50 level 15-20 rats.

Would this make it seem more realistic?

quote: Original post by SteveBrown

Another thing you could do is increase the number of attackers if you use low levels compared to the player. Level 5 player gets attacked by 10 level 1 rats, or 3 level 12 rats. Level 45 player gets attacked by 50 level 15-20 rats.

i thought about this, but again, it doesnt really fit in with everything else. reminds me of phantasy star. where at the beginning, there were giant insects which were fairly easy to kill. but by the time you were at the end of the game, then they would team up and be like 10 of them. and it would just come down to a lot of button smashing to kill them.

i still think that the best method would be using ratios. at the beginning of the game, the chance of encountering a strong enemy would be around 15:1. as you grow stronger, then the ratio would slowly decrease until the end of them game where the ratio of encountering a weak character would be 10:1.
then you could add into the fact that there are many different levels of enemies, and it would look something like this.
weak:15, medium:5, strong:1. and then at the end
weak:1, medium:7, strong:10
this still adds to very linear gameplay, but its the best i can come up with.



-Luxury
"There once was a man who stared straight into the eyes of everything...
and soon went blind."

quote: Original post by SteveBrown
Maybe you could set a fixed range of possible levels for each enemy type, like rats could be levels 1-20, dragons can be 10-50. then keep the level of the enemy within a certain distance from the players level. Like level 5 player gets attacked by rat level 1, another rat level 10 and a dragon level 15.

Would this make it seem more realistic?

That''s the way I have used -- have minimum and maximum levels. It makes the most sense to me. A rat, no matter how big or powerful, will never be able to have 300 hp.

Maybe the ratio idea could work in conjuction with this one. The enemies level up with you, but there are minimum and maximum levels determining when you can encounter them. When you are a level one character, stronger enemies will see you as inconsequential and not pester you. At about level six they start attacking you and after level twenty they decide that it is in their best interest to leave you alone, except in groups of three.