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Do you KNOW when its a good design?
Author
Just a little question.... when you have finished a game, and people play it and say "hey this games really cool", as the designer, do you KNOW what you did right? Do you look back and think "Aha, carefully play balancing and a combination of a well-thought out plot together with fantasticly original art has made thi game a success!" or do you think (like I do) "Hmmmm I thought this bit was a bit rough, and that but got put in because it was easy, but HECK, people seem to love it!"
theres a big difference between having a suprise hit on your hands, and knowing you have hit a good repeatable formula, So my question is, how many of us are lucky, and how many of us know what we have done right?
Does Will Wright KNOW what makes the Sims a success? and did he think he knew what jhe was doing with some of the less successfull Sim games?
Do Ensemble Know why AOE 2 is such a success, or was it blind luck?
Just curious.
http://www.positech.co.uk
I''ve heard it said by VPs in the business that if you ANYONE knew the secret formula to making games they''d be a multi-billionaire. No one KNOWS that they have a hit. Like great chefs, the best designers know what ingredients work well together and in what quantity.
Or, at least, this is what I get from reading the interviews of guys like Miyamoto, Meier, and Molyneaux. I get the impression that the their most important skill is observation and listening. Miyamoto (Mario Brothers...) spent YEARS watching people play. Sid Meier says that he has to create what''s fun for him, and what''s from the heart, rather than relying on marketing. I don''t think success is blind luck with these guys, but none but the most arrogant would tell you that they''re ALWAYS successful.
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Just waiting for the mothership...
Or, at least, this is what I get from reading the interviews of guys like Miyamoto, Meier, and Molyneaux. I get the impression that the their most important skill is observation and listening. Miyamoto (Mario Brothers...) spent YEARS watching people play. Sid Meier says that he has to create what''s fun for him, and what''s from the heart, rather than relying on marketing. I don''t think success is blind luck with these guys, but none but the most arrogant would tell you that they''re ALWAYS successful.
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Just waiting for the mothership...
Usually when I start to drool. 
- DarkMage139
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I can do things, things you never knew,
I can change your world if you only knew.
I can do miracles if you want me to.
Anything is possible, I'll prove it to you.
- DarkMage139
++++++++++++++++
I can do things, things you never knew,
I can change your world if you only knew.
I can do miracles if you want me to.
Anything is possible, I'll prove it to you.
I''d have to say that the designer is always in too deep in the project to be a trustworthy reference on the matter. When you have a second opinion from someone who is a games buff... then you get an idea about what is right and what is wrong with your game. Just one ingredient not to add: Boredom/Repetition... This really is a drawback of modern games. Click''n''kill is a no-go anymore in my book - at least, not without some strategy required 
-Chris Bennett ("Insanity" of Dwarfsoft)
Check our site:
http://www.crosswinds.net/~dwarfsoft/
Check out our NPC AI Mailing List :
http://www.egroups.com/group/NPCAI/
made due to popular demand here at GDNet :)
-Chris Bennett ("Insanity" of Dwarfsoft)
Check our site:
http://www.crosswinds.net/~dwarfsoft/
Check out our NPC AI Mailing List :
http://www.egroups.com/group/NPCAI/
made due to popular demand here at GDNet :)
Well, of course unbiased opinions are always the best kind, and you''ll have to go outside of the dev team to find them. However, determining whether or not a game is fun is something that should be done *long* before the game actually exists. That can obviously be a difficult process. I find that many games can be broken down into simpler concepts which can be quickly turned into testable mini-games. For example, I once designed a 2D top-down space shooter. Despite resistance within the dev-team, I really wanted to be able to "board" the enemy ships. Obviously you had to catch them first. So I developed a simple game loop (no sprite graphics or sound) just to test how much fun it would be to catch the enemy ships. It turned out that it was actually a whole hell of a lot of fun, and that testing board ended up distracting the entire team to the point that it had to be completely destroyed. that feature was obviously added to the game. While the game itself was never officially released, the point is that you shouldn''t just take it for granted that the system you''ve designed will be entertaining. Try to find ways to actually test your concepts before you make the games that will use them.
So how can you be sure that you have a good game on your hands? I think a big part of the problem is the disparity between what makes a *good* game, and what makes a *successful* game. So many great games go unnoticed, while complete duds like diablo or resident evil become mega-hits. (I won''t go into why both these games are on my blacklist, but they are). Everyone can tell roughly how good a game is, but they can never predict how successful it will be.
This, IMO, is largely the fault of the marketing department. Things like name, box art, and magazine ads can have a *HUGE* effect on the success of your game, no matter how wonderful or horrible it is. So get involved. You see, The market is a wildly complex thing with many deep, dark corners. Some of those corners contain people who will enjoy your game. Success depends not only on the game itself, but on how successfully the marketing department finds and targets the *appropriate* consumers.
So how can you be sure that you have a good game on your hands? I think a big part of the problem is the disparity between what makes a *good* game, and what makes a *successful* game. So many great games go unnoticed, while complete duds like diablo or resident evil become mega-hits. (I won''t go into why both these games are on my blacklist, but they are). Everyone can tell roughly how good a game is, but they can never predict how successful it will be.
This, IMO, is largely the fault of the marketing department. Things like name, box art, and magazine ads can have a *HUGE* effect on the success of your game, no matter how wonderful or horrible it is. So get involved. You see, The market is a wildly complex thing with many deep, dark corners. Some of those corners contain people who will enjoy your game. Success depends not only on the game itself, but on how successfully the marketing department finds and targets the *appropriate* consumers.
Some of this has been said before, but I think it''s important to sum up and be concise:
As the designer, don''t think you have a hit on your hands because you had fun designing it. You''re not a player yet. (Daikata is a magnificent example of designer over-confidence).
Design for yourself as a player, or do not judge the gameplay yourself at ALL, let a team of people who are not involved in the development process playtest (even before a line of code has been written). They''ll give you a more objective idea of how good or bad the idea is;
Give me one more medicated peaceful moment.
~ (V)^|) |<é!t|-| ~
ERROR: Your beta-version of Life1.0 has expired. Please upgrade to the full version. All important social functions will be disabled from now on.
As the designer, don''t think you have a hit on your hands because you had fun designing it. You''re not a player yet. (Daikata is a magnificent example of designer over-confidence).
Design for yourself as a player, or do not judge the gameplay yourself at ALL, let a team of people who are not involved in the development process playtest (even before a line of code has been written). They''ll give you a more objective idea of how good or bad the idea is;
Give me one more medicated peaceful moment.
~ (V)^|) |<é!t|-| ~
ERROR: Your beta-version of Life1.0 has expired. Please upgrade to the full version. All important social functions will be disabled from now on.
Was that a plug for Goblin that I heard there MKV? "Playtest before you have written a line of code". Hehe. I definitely think you are right there though, mock ups and explanations are good to ask of an unsuspecting subject... ah... err.. friend? . My friend wasn''t very nice about my "Learning Experience" and shot it down before I could even finish explaining. Maybe I shouldn''t have spoiled the ending for him, because then he would have had to learn for himself. I must admit though, that he is font of Diablo/II and he thinks that click''n''kill is kool. So do I discount his opinion?
(Just noticed that I am now #2)
-Chris Bennett ("Insanity" of Dwarfsoft)
Check our site:
http://www.crosswinds.net/~dwarfsoft/
Check out our NPC AI Mailing List :
http://www.egroups.com/group/NPCAI/
made due to popular demand here at GDNet :)
. My friend wasn''t very nice about my "Learning Experience" and shot it down before I could even finish explaining. Maybe I shouldn''t have spoiled the ending for him, because then he would have had to learn for himself. I must admit though, that he is font of Diablo/II and he thinks that click''n''kill is kool. So do I discount his opinion?(Just noticed that I am now #2
) -Chris Bennett ("Insanity" of Dwarfsoft)
Check our site:
http://www.crosswinds.net/~dwarfsoft/
Check out our NPC AI Mailing List :
http://www.egroups.com/group/NPCAI/
made due to popular demand here at GDNet :)
I don''t know how I could tell *beforehand* whether players would like my game. It''s really easy to tell if someone else''s game is good or not -- I play it as a *player*, after all. But when it comes to my own projects, I am way too personally involved in them to be able to make an adequate impartial judgement. I can do some judging, as if I were a player, but I can''t tell you if the sum whole of the thing will be good.
I agree, it''s tough to seperate yourself from your own creations. I guess just trusting your opinions as a gamer and putting in what''s fun for you or what you think is fun is all you can do.
I also firmly believe in testing everything before etching it in stone, and not just for the gameplay aspect, but for bug testing as well.
What not to do is just put something in just because it was in another game. Not because you liked it, or it was fun, just because someone else did it. That doesn''t work.
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"What's the story with your face, son?!?"
I also firmly believe in testing everything before etching it in stone, and not just for the gameplay aspect, but for bug testing as well.
What not to do is just put something in just because it was in another game. Not because you liked it, or it was fun, just because someone else did it. That doesn''t work.
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"What's the story with your face, son?!?"
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