I see a lot of people having problems with the light bridge? It sounds like the game didn''t educate the player in the ways they could solve the puzzles in the game very well.

This is obviously a major issue when designing puzzles.

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Our Goal is "Fun"!

quote: Original post by Paul Cunningham

I think some good AI in adventure/puzzle games would not go astray. What would be good is if the computer could tell you were having problems and would then slowly leak hints. Yes/no?

I love Game Design and it loves me back.

Yes, that would be nice. It would get rid of the need for a walkthrough, but it''d need to be implimented correctly.

As for official walkthroughs versus unooficial.. official has it ALL.. and often costs money. Which is totally pointless since one person will buy the official and then write their own based on it.. and it''ll be free. fame vs fortune, once more. That''s why they discount the official one when buying the game. perfect dark.. easy, right? but the guide is damn useful if you ask me. Maps of the levels, help in understanding how the AI works.. some of the AI in the game like godlike.. and this is fair how? A player, with limited motion, reaction time, and capability versus 4 AI players who can move in any direction while aiming and constantly getting head shots without so much as trying? And this makes the game fair/realistic in what way?!
I think this falls back on what paul said about games going too far and becoming too hard for the normal player to play. Unfortunately you can''t handicap a game.. and that''s what you really need. A lot of people means a lot of diversity which means you have to be prepared for that. having an "easy" "medium" and "hard" level isn''t really right. You should have one level with multiple handicap levels. This would allow the player to actually show through and WIN despite not having super-reactions and hand-eye coordination and awesome head shots 24/7. What good is a game if it only tailors to a few thousand people and frustrates all the others who can''t get their money back?! bad game design..

So.. in short, i agree with Paul here.. desgin the game right and you shouldn''t need a walkthrough to beat it.. regardless of game genre. The game should be flexible enough to allow anyone of any level to win. period.

J

How about including a walk-through with a game, as in a file or option in-game.

I think handicaps are good but the player shouldn''t feel like a wimp for having to use them. Smart terminology is whats needed here i think rather than easy/normal/hard.

No-one wants to play hard unless its fun right? So it shouldn''t be called hard. It should be called something else than will not damage the ego''s of people who don''t enjoy the extra level of hardness.

I love Game Design and it loves me back.

Our Goal is "Fun"!

I still think the "sell it extra and get money for it" is going to be the best idea in a money-influenced industry

As far as technology.. well.. the handicap shouldn''t make the player feel bad. Perhaps the game will learn when it''s too strong for the player and react by reducing the AI characters a bit? Then if the player gets better, it will up the AI level slowly to allow the player the chance to learn without even realizing it. This breaks the mold of the "harder characters come at you in higher levels" that you find in almost all games. Why do harder ones come later? are the early-on missions less important and thus have less perfect people? How does this truely place you in this world?
Perfect Dark is a good example. In the challenges, they get harder because you''re in a challenge mode.. and not in the game. But in the game, they get harder as you go along, as well.. but the general masses of enemies don''t go up a lot. The patrol guy is still a stupid, bad aim guy just like he was in the begining. Different characters are better than others in the game. Elvis, the lil guy helping you out sometimes, is like a dark sim, which means he''s the best there is.. and you need him sometimes. lol.
I like this way the best.. characters are all the same throughout.. based on levels of training. The challenges are kicking my butt right now cause they''re next to impossible.. ugh. This to me loses some fun, since you have to beat certain things to unlock the cheats.. and if you can''t beat them.. then the game loses play value. This is where the Handicap should come in. If i suck and i know it.. then i want the game to be hard for me on hard.. and easy on easy. not impossible on hard, mostly-impossible on medium, and hard on easy!

J

I tend to agree with you on the AI issue there Niphty, this would be better than the preset difficulty level system. Do you think this would remove the players need or want for walk-throughs.

There was one walk-through that i enjoyed for half-life which was almost like a book. It gave me more of an understanding of whats going on in the game. I think this is the good aspect to walkthroughs.

You know what they say about the difference between reading a book and watching the movie. I think including a book version of a game with the game would not be that bad an idea myself.

I love Game Design and it loves me back.

Our Goal is "Fun"!

quote: Original post by Paul Cunningham


You know what they say about the difference between reading a book and watching the movie. I think including a book version of a game with the game would not be that bad an idea myself.

Wow.. i never thought about that A book version would be totally awesome! I''ll do that.. thanks

As far as gamers not using a walk-through.. they''ll use it. They want to make sure they find all the secret holes and what-not. Unless you allow them to beat the game, and then provide a cheat version in which they can ''see'' hidden game areas. Once they play through like that, then they can simply play through for real again and try to get those secret areas. I hated Doom for it''s secret areas.. ugh.

Also, you need a game with high replayability. Make an easy, medium, and hard level and then make it so people can handicap. That way everyone can play to their own ability Or make the AI like i said before.. which auto-handicaps. You want the player to be able to enjoy the game over and over again.. that''s the real kicker.

J

Yeah, well i kind of had an idea after using the halflife walkthrough that a book for a game could act like a walkthrough but only in general. It would require a bit of skill in the development of the book as not to tell the player every thing thats in the game but rather give them a better "feel" for the game.

But i would like to see a book and game made in unison so they relate cohesivley unlike the current situation where one is made before the other.

I guess it would still work ok if the game was made first. As i kind of said above i would like to read a halflife or perfect dark book. Then i would probably want to play the game again.

I love Game Design and it loves me back.

Our Goal is "Fun"!